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/global.php 958 eval
/showthread.php 28 require_once
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/global.php 961 eval
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/showthread.php 673 build_forum_jump
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/inc/functions.php 3442 eval
/showthread.php 673 build_forum_jump
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/showthread.php 673 build_forum_jump
Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code 2 errorHandler->error_callback
/showthread.php 1690 eval
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/showthread.php 1690 eval
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/showthread.php 1690 eval
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/showthread.php 1690 eval
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/inc/class_error.php 153 errorHandler->error
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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من هم اهل البيت عليهم السلام ؟؟؟؟؟؟؟
zaidgalal غير متصل
عضو رائد
*****

المشاركات: 4,570
الانضمام: Jan 2005
مشاركة: #48
من هم اهل البيت عليهم السلام ؟؟؟؟؟؟؟

الأخ الفاضل علي نور

..........................
سننتقل ان شاء الله الى معنى مولى بعد الفراغ من اثبات صحة الحديث و الا فلا معنى من نقاش الكلمة ان لم يكن لها علاقة بموضوعنا .
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صحة الحديث: أي حديث تقصد أخي الكريم؟؟؟!!! فالحديث كلمة مفردة تعني حديثًا واحدًا. ما هو هذا الحديث؟

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عندما اوردت لك الرواية فاننى اوردتها مع تصحيح الهيثمى لها فى مجمع الزوائد
فمع كل الاحترام و التقدير لك اخى الفاضل
هل انت اعلم من الهيثمى ؟؟؟؟؟
........................

الهيثمي يخطيء كثيرًا في علم الحديث. فأغلب رواياته لا يذكر لها سندًا متصلًا. كما أن كثيرًا من رواياته ضعيفة باعترافه. افتح كتبه هذه واقرأ ما يتعلق بسيدنا علي ستجده يُضَعِّف أغلبها هو بنفسه.
........................
و اليك الرواية من طريق اخر فى مجمع الزوائد للهيثمى ايضا :
784-وعن زيد بن ثابت عن رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم قال:
"إني تركت فيكم خليفتين كتاب الله وأهل بيتي وإنهما لن يتفرقا حتى يردا على الحوض".
رواه الطبراني في الكبير ورجاله ثقات. ص.414
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أين "رجاله" أخي الفاضل؟؟؟!!! سيادتكم لم تذكر إلا زيد بن ثابت فقط، رجل واحد فقط روى عن الرسول فيما يُعْتَقَد. فأين بقية الرجال الذين رووا عن زيد بن ثابت؟؟؟!!!

إنه لا تطلق تسمية "من طريق آخر" إلا في حالة إيراد رواية بسند ثم إيراد نفس الرواية ولكن برواة مختلفين. فأين الرواة المختلفين لنطلق على الرواية عبارة "من طريق آخر"؟؟؟!!!

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14957- عن زيد بن ثابت قال: قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم:
"إني تارك فيكم خليفتين: كتاب الله عز وجل حبل ممدود ما بين السماء والأرض - أو ما بين السماء إلى الأرض - وعترتي أهل بيتي، وإنهما لن يتفرقا حتى يردا علي الحوض".
رواه أحمد وإسناده جيد.
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أين هو الإسناد

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نعم كتب التفاسير لا تهتم كثيرا بالسند كاهتمام كتب الحديث ولكن لا يعنى ذلك ان كل ما فى كتب التفسير مرفوض او ضعيف .
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ما يرد في كتب التفاسير ما لم يكن مقتبسًا من كتب الحديث المعتمدة فهو ضعيف منقطع أو انه أثر لا يحتج به. وإلا من أين جاء المفسر بروايته؟؟؟!!!

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2591 من كنت مولاه فعلي مولاه رواه الطبراني وأحمد والضياء في المختارة عن زيد بن أرقم وعلي وثلاثين من الصحابة بلفظ اللهم وال من والاه وعاد من عاداه فالحديث متواتر أو مشهور. (كشف الخفاء. ج2. ص 361)
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ضع الرواية بسندها لننظر فيها إذا كانت رواية بسند لم نتعرض له من قبل. حكم عالم واحد لا يعني أن نصم آذاننا عن رأي باقي علمائنا المُحَدِّثين المدقيين الذي غربلوا الأحاديث بطريقة لم يسبق لها مثيل، ليضعوا أمام العالم علم التوثيق الذي شهده العالم لأول مرة على أيدي علماء السنة والجماعة.

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14610- عن رباح بن الحارث قال: جاء رهط إلى علي بالرحبة قالوا: السلام عليك يا مولانا، فقال: كيف أكون مولاكم وأنتم قوم عرب؟ قالوا: سمعنا رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم يوم غدير خم يقول:
"من كنت مولاه فهذا مولاه"....................الخ
ورجال أحمد ثقات
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هذه الرواية ساقطة لسقوط سندها. فأين سند وسلسلة الرواة؟؟؟!!!
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- وعن أبي الطفيل قال: جمع على الناس في الرحبة ثم قال لهم.................
قال أبو نعيم: فقام ناس كثير فشهدوا....................
رواه أحمد ورجاله رجال الصحيح غير فطر بن خليفة وهو ثقة
.......................

في الرواية التي ذكرتَها سيادتكم لم يرد فيها ذكر "فطر بن خليفة". والمعنى أن سند الرواية غير مذكور هنا. ولا يعتد بالحديث دون سنده. ضع سلسلة الرواة لننظر فيهم. واعلم أن "فطر بن خليفة" لم يرد ذكره في مسند الإمام أحمد البتة. فتأمل!!!

ربما تقصد الرواية التالية:

553 أخبرنا عبدالله بن أحمد الحربي بها أن أبا القاسم هبة الله بن الحصين أخبرهم قراءة عليه أنا أبو علي بن المذهب أنا أبو بكر القطيعي ثنا عبدالله بن أحمد حدثني أبي ثنا حسين بن محمد وأبو نعيم المعني قثنا فطر عن أبي الطفيل قال جمع علي بن أبي طالب رضي الله عنه الناس في الرحبة ثم قال أنشد بالله كل امرئ مسلم سمع رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم يقول يوم غدير خم ما قال فقام إليه بعض الناس قال أبو نعيم فقام ناس كثير فشهدوا حين أخذ بيده فقال للناس أتعلمون أني أولى بالمؤمنين من أنفسهم قالوا نعم يا رسول الله قال من كنت مولاه فهذا مولاه اللهم وال من والاه وعاد من عاداه قال فخرجت كأن في نفسي شيئا فلقيت زيد بن أرقم فقلت له إني سمعت عليا يقول كذا وكذا قال فما تنكر قد سمعت رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم يقول ذلك له رواه أبو حاتم البستي عن عبدالله الأزدي عن إسحاق بن إبراهيم عن أبي نعيم ويحيى بن آدم عن فطر بن خليفة بنحوه إسناده حسن. (الأحاديث المختارة. ج2. ص 174)

عبدالله بن أحمد الحربي: مجهول لم أجد له ترجمة بالمرة.

فطر بن خليفة فيه كلام وهو ثقة. (مجمع الزوائد. ج3. ص 169)

فطر بن خليفة: صدوق وثق وقال الجوزجاني ثقة وقال الدارقطني زائغ لا يحتج به وغمزه ابن المديني. (من تكلم فيه. ج1. ص 151)

ليس بذاك المتقن مع ما فيه من بدعة ومن أجل ذلك قرنه البخاري بآخر وحديثه من قبيل الحسن قال عباد بن يعقوب في كتاب المناقب له أنبأنا أبو عبد الرحمن الأصباغي وغيره عن جعفر الأحمر قال دخلنا على فطر بن خليفة وهو مغمى عليه فأفاق فقال يا عبد الله ما يسرني أن مكان كل شعرة في جسدي لسان يسبح الله بحبي أهل البيت. (سير أعلام النبلاء. ج7. ص 32، 33)

فطر بن خليفة الحناط كوفى ثقة حسن الحديث وكان فيه تشيع قليل. (معرفة الثقات. ج2. ص 208)

له أحاديث منكرة وباطلة. (الكامل في لضعفاء الرجال. ج1. ص 307)

حدث عن مجاهيل (لسان الميزان. ج4. ص 469)

فطر بن خليفة الكوفي الشيعي حدثنا علي بن أحمد بن سليمان ثنا بن أبي مريم سمعت يحيى بن معين يقول فطر بن خليفة ثقة كان يتشيع وهو يكتب حديثه حدثنا بن أبي عصمة ثنا أحمد بن حميد قال سئل يعني أحمد بن حنبل عن فطر ومحل فقال فطر كان يغالي في التشيع. (الكامل في لضعفاء الرجال. ج6. ص 30)

فأحد الرواة مجهول، وراوٍ ثانٍ فيه شك وروى أحاديث باطلة ومنكرة. لا يمكن قبول رواية واهية كهذه وبناء عقيدة عليها كما ترى!!! العقيدة تبنى من الله ورسوله ولا يطالها غبار الشك ولا يلفها الغموض من كل جوانبها.

8478 أخبرني هارون بن عبد الله قال حدثنا مصعب بن المقدام قال حدثنا فطر بن خليفة عن أبي الطفيل وأخبرنا أبو داود قال حدثنا محمد بن سليمان قال حدثنا فطر عن أبي الطفيل عامر بن واثلة قال جمع علي الناس في الرحبة فقال أنشد بالله كل امرئ سمع رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم يقول يوم غدير خم ما سمع فقام أناس فشهدوا أن رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم قال يوم غدير خم ألستم تعلمون أني أولى بالمؤمنين من أنفسهم وهو قائم ثم أخذ بيد علي فقال من كنت مولاه فعلي مولاه اللهم وال من والاه وعاد من عاداه قال أبو الطفيل فخرجت وفي نفسي منه شيء فلقيت زيد بن أرقم فأخبرته فقال أوما تنكر أنا سمعته من رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم. (السنن الكبرى. ج5. ص 135)

صعب بن المقدام الكوفي عن بن جريج وفطر وعنه محمد بن رافع وعبد قال أبو داود لا بأس به وعن بن المديني تضعيفه. (الكاشف. ج2. ص 268)

كما حكم بتضعيفه أبو حاتم صالح، وقال عبد الله بن علي بن المديني عن أبيه ضعيف، بن حكيم الأودي. ووثقه آخرون. (تهذيب الكمال. ج28. ص 43)

فإذا أضفنا إليه فطر بن خليفة الكوفي سقطت الرواية وأصبحت لا يعتد بها.

الزيادة التي وردت أعلاه وهي "الله وال من والاه وعاد من عاداه" لا نجد لها أثرًا في الرواية التالية:

4968 حدثنا عبد الله بن محمد بن العباس الأصبهاني ثنا أبو مسعود أحمد بن الفرات ثنا عبد الرحمن بن مصعب ثنا فطر بن خليفة عن أبي الطفيل عن زيد بن أرقم أن النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم قال من كنت وليه فعلي وليه. (المعجم الكبير. ج5. ص 165)

إن أقصى ما نصل إليه هو أن الرسول صلوات ربي وتسليماته عليه وعلى آله وصحبه قال "من كنت مولاه فعلي مولاه" بهدف نثر الحب في سماء المسلمين ليتذوقوا عبيره.

تحياتي لك
03-11-2006, 12:23 PM
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من هم اهل البيت عليهم السلام ؟؟؟؟؟؟؟ - بواسطة zaidgalal - 03-11-2006, 12:23 PM

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