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/global.php 958 eval
/showthread.php 28 require_once
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/global.php 961 eval
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/showthread.php 673 build_forum_jump
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/inc/functions.php 3442 eval
/showthread.php 673 build_forum_jump
Warning [2] Undefined property: MyLanguage::$forumjump_select - Line: 5 - File: inc/functions.php(3442) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/showthread.php 673 build_forum_jump
Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/showthread.php 1690 eval
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/showthread.php 1690 eval
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/inc/class_error.php 153 errorHandler->error
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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من هم اهل البيت عليهم السلام ؟؟؟؟؟؟؟
zaidgalal غير متصل
عضو رائد
*****

المشاركات: 4,570
الانضمام: Jan 2005
مشاركة: #63
من هم اهل البيت عليهم السلام ؟؟؟؟؟؟؟
الأخ الفاضل علي نور

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الحديث الذى اقصده هو بشكل عام مسالة الحديث و تقرير الولاية للامام على عليه السلام بنصوص صحيحة من الحديث .
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لا. لا يوجد شيء اسمه الحديث بشكل عام. هناك روايات للحديث ننظر فيها رواية رواية. وكل رواية تسمى حديث، حديث مفرد قائم بذاته.

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فانك ترفض الهيثمى و مجمع الزوائد كما رفضت الحاكم و مستدركه .
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لا. أرفض ما يثبت أنه ضعيف. وما يثبت أنه صحيح لا يأتي من حكم عالم واحد. إذا اختلف العلماء في صحة حديث وضعفه ضربنا به عرض الحائط بدليل اختلاف العلماء فيه. العقيدة لا تبنى على شيء مختلف فيه. بل تبنى على الثابت المؤكد.

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اهل السنة و الجماعة عبارة عن مدارس مختلفة و مذاهب مختلفة و من النادر جدا ان تجد من يوثقه و يجمع على توثيقه اهل السنة و الجماعة .
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هذا فهم خطأ. انظر صحيحي البخاري ومسلم على سبيل المثال لا الحصر. وغربلة علماء السنة والجماعة للأحاديث أمانة علمية نشكرهم عليها.

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انا اكتفى باثبات توثيق مرجع او اكثر من مراجع السنة للرواية و اعتبار سندها صحيحا و ثقته برجالها و هذا طريق يختصر على و عليك النقاش برجال الرواية .
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هذا منهج خطأ تمامًا. مرجع واحد لا يكفي. بل لا بد أن تحشد عشرات المراجع الموثقة المعتمدة. عندما أناقشك مستقبلًا من مراجع الشيعة –إذا استمر هذا الحوار بالطبع- ستجدني أستشهد بالأحاديث الشيعية المعتمدة ثابتة الصحة.

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2631- إني تارك فيكم خليفتين: كتاب الله حبل ممدود ما بين السماء والأرض، وعترتي أهل بيتي، وإنهما لن يتفرقا حتى يردا على الحوض[وفي نص شرح المناوي "يفترقا" بدل "يتفرقا"]ـ
التخريج (مفصلا): أحمد في مسنده والطبراني في الكبير عن زيد بن ثابت.
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هذه الرواية لا سند لها أمامي الآن. ضع الرواية بسندها فإنه لا يصح وضع حديث دون سنده ومصدره. أين سلسلة الرواة أخي الفاضل؟؟؟!!!

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يعنى السيوطى اعتبر الرواية صحيحة.
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السيوطي عالم ضمن علماء كثيرين أجلاء. ولابد أن تضع الرواية بسندها لأعرف رأي العلماء الآخرين في سند الرواية.

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اوردت لك اكثر من مرجع اعترف بالرواية و اعتبرها صحيحة بل متواترة .
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وأوردت لك حكم علماء بضعف الرواية. وما دام وقع اختلاف، ضربنا بالرواية عرض الحائط. الرواية التي يقع فيها اختلاف لا تصلح للاحتجاج بها.

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انت تورد الرواية و فى نهايتها تعليق بان اسنادها حسن
ثم تحاول اقناعنا بانها ضعيفة فاتقى الله
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اسنادها حسن في رأي كاتبها وإلا لما كتبها أو ذكر أنها ضعيفة. هناك علماء محدثون مدققون آخرون. عندما ننظر لصحة حديث ننظر له من كافة الجوانب لا من جانب واحد.

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وقد روى النسائي في سننه عن محمد بن المثنى، عن يحيى بن حماد، عن أبي معاوية، عن الأعمش، عن حبيب ابن أبي ثابت، عن أبي الطفيل، عن زيد بن أرقم قال: لما رجع رسول الله من حجة الوداع ونزل غدير حم أمر بدوحات فقممن ثم قال: ((كأني قد دعيت فأجبت إني قد تركت فيكم الثقلين كتاب الله، وعترتي أهل بيتي، فانظروا كيف تخلفوني فيهما، فإنهما لن يفترقا حتَّى يردا علي الحوض)).
ثم قال: ((الله مولاي، وأنا ولي كل مؤمن)) ثم أخذ بيد علي فقال: ((من كنت مولاه، فهذا وليه، اللهم وال من والاه، وعاد من عاداه)).
فقلت لزيد: سمعته من رسول الله صلَّى الله عليه وسلَّم فقال: ما كان في الدوحات أحد إلا رآه بعينيه، وسمعه بأذنيه، تفرد به النسائي من هذا الوجه. (ج/ص:5/229)
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عندما تستشهد بحديث خذه من مصدره المباشر.

ما رأيك أن عبارة: "تركت فيكم الثقلين كتاب الله" لن تجدها في أيٍّ من كتب الحديث البتة؟؟؟!!!

ما رأيك أنها لم ترد في سنن النسائي (المجتبي) بالمرة؟؟؟!!!

ولن تجد كذلك عبارة "عن أبي معاوية" في رواية كهذه!!!

ما رأيك؟؟؟!!!
03-13-2006, 05:15 PM
زيارة موقع العضو عرض جميع مشاركات هذا العضو إقتباس هذه الرسالة في الرد
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الردود في هذا الموضوع
من هم اهل البيت عليهم السلام ؟؟؟؟؟؟؟ - بواسطة zaidgalal - 03-13-2006, 05:15 PM

المواضيع المحتمل أن تكون متشابهة…
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