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/global.php 958 eval
/showthread.php 28 require_once
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/global.php 961 eval
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/showthread.php 673 build_forum_jump
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/inc/functions.php 3442 eval
/showthread.php 673 build_forum_jump
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/inc/functions.php 3442 eval
/showthread.php 673 build_forum_jump
Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code 2 errorHandler->error_callback
/showthread.php 1690 eval
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/showthread.php 1690 eval
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1686) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/showthread.php 1686 eval
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/showthread.php 1690 eval
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/inc/class_error.php 153 errorHandler->error
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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مناقشة لكتاب Die Richtungen der Islamischen Koranauslegung
رحمة العاملي غير متصل
عضو رائد
*****

المشاركات: 1,790
الانضمام: Sep 2002
مشاركة: #20
مناقشة لكتاب Die Richtungen der Islamischen Koranauslegung
يا استاذ حمدي
رحمة العاملي بالغنى عن الجدال وقد بلغ من العمر عتيا


كيف رجع زيد الى بني النجار ؟


لدينا رواية من صحابي (ابن مسعود) ثقة على الاقل تقول بان اصل زيد بن ثابت يهودي
وقد انزل الله سبعين سورة حفظها ابن مسعود وزيد صبي ذو ذؤابتان في مدارس اليهود في المدينة
نسب ابن الأثير وأكثر كتب الرجال زيداً الى الخزرج فقال في أسد الغابة ج 2 ص 221 :

( زيد بن ثابت بن الضحاك بن زيد بن لوذان بن عمرو بن عبد بن عوف بن غنم بن مالك بن النجار الأنصاري الخزرجي ثم النجاري ، أمه النوار بنت مالك بن معاوية بن عدي بن عامر بن غنم بن عدي بن النجار ... ) انتهى .

ومن المشكل قبول ذلك ، لأن زيد بن لوذان المذكور هو جد بني حزم المعروفين من نقباء الأنصار ، ولو كان زيد منهم لظهر ذلك في ترجماته أو ترجماتهم
فلو كان النسب الذي ذكروه لزيد صحيحاً لكان عمارة وإخوته أبناء حزم ، أولاد عم أبيه ثابت ، ولظهر شئ من هذا النسب الرفيع في ترجمته أو تراجمهم .. مع أنه لا ذكر لشئ من ذلك !



ثم قال السمعاني في الأنساب ج 1 ص 172 : انه اوسي

( ... وأبو عبد الرحمن محمد بن عبد الرحمن بن عثمان بن عبد الرحمن بن زيد بن ثابت بن الضحاك بن خليفة الأشهلي المديني ، وخليفة صاحب رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم ) انتهى .

ووصف السمعاني له بالأشهلي يعني أنه من الأوس
وليس من الخزرج كما ذكرت
وللضحاك هذا ولد اسمه ثابت بن الضحاك بن خليفة ، ترجم له البخاري في تاريخه ج 2 ص 165 فقال : ( ثابت بن الضحاك الأنصاري ، وقال بعضهم الكلابي ، له صحبة وأخوه أبو جبيرة بن الضحاك ) انتهى .

ولكن الرازي نفى في الجرح والتعديل ج 2 ص 453 أن يكون ثابت هذا والد زيد بن ثابت ..
قال :( ثابت بن الضحاك بن خليفة الأنصارى له صحبة روى عنه عبدالله بن معقل وأبو قلابة سمعت أبي يقول ذلك . سمعت أبي يقول : بلغني عن ابن نمير أنه قال : هو والد زيد بن ثابت . فإن كان قاله فقد غلط وذلك أن أبا قلابة لم يدرك زيد بن ثابت فكيف يدرك أباه ؟ وهو يقول حدثني ثابت بن الضحاك الأنصاري ! ) انتهى
وللضحاك هذا أولاد آخرون معروفون مثل أبي جبيرة واسمه قيس وقد ترجم له البخاري في تاريخه ج9 ص20 برقم 157 وابن الأثير في أسد الغابة ج 4 ص218 وج5 ص156 . وله بنت اسمها ثبيتة أو نبيتة ترجم لها في أسد الغابة ج 5 ص 413 وإكمال الكمال ج1 ص 185 وقال عن ثابت ( وهو أخو جبيرة بن الضحاك ، وثبيتة بنت الضحاك ، التي كان محمد بن مسلمة يطاردها ببصره ليتزوجها )

ولو كان هؤلاء أعمام زيد وأقاربه لعرفوا ، أو ذكر ذلك أحد في ترجمته أو ترجماتهم .. مضافاً الى أن زيداً كان يقول إن والده توفي وعمره ست سنوات كما روت عنه المصادر مثل سير أعلام النبلاء وأسد الغابة وتهذيب الكمال

بعد هذا العرض الموجز اخي الكريم الذي يحير في اصل زيد بن ثابت
والأنساب التي ذكروها له تزيد الباحث شكا
فتارة هو انصاري خزرجي
وتارة اخرى هو اشهلي اوسي
وتارة يرجعونه الى نسب امه من بني النجار


الاخ زياد جلال
جدالك بالذات لا اهواه
فمن اخرتها أحسن
كيف تؤكد بان القرآن الذي بين يديك الان هو من جمع الخليفة عثمان ولجنته
هات لنشوف
07-04-2006, 10:17 AM
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مناقشة لكتاب Die Richtungen der Islamischen Koranauslegung - بواسطة رحمة العاملي - 07-04-2006, 10:17 AM

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