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/global.php 958 eval
/showthread.php 28 require_once
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/global.php 961 eval
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Warning [2] Undefined property: MyLanguage::$bottomlinks_returncontent - Line: 6 - File: global.php(1070) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/showthread.php 673 build_forum_jump
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/inc/functions.php 3442 eval
/showthread.php 673 build_forum_jump
Warning [2] Undefined property: MyLanguage::$forumjump_select - Line: 5 - File: inc/functions.php(3442) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/inc/functions.php 3442 eval
/showthread.php 673 build_forum_jump
Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code 2 errorHandler->error_callback
/showthread.php 1690 eval
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/showthread.php 1690 eval
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/showthread.php 1690 eval
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/showthread.php 1690 eval
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/inc/class_error.php 153 errorHandler->error
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/inc/class_plugins.php 142 thankyoulike_postbit
/inc/functions_post.php 898 pluginSystem->run_hooks
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/inc/class_plugins.php 142 thankyoulike_postbit
/inc/functions_post.php 898 pluginSystem->run_hooks
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/inc/functions_post.php 898 pluginSystem->run_hooks
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بحث فى مصطلح ابن الله فى العهد الجديد

عزيزي eeww2000 , الاخوة الافاضل


أهلا بك , كيف حالك


اقتباس: كتب/كتبت
ان التلاميذ شكوا رعم معاصرتهم للمعجزات و اعلانات يسوع عن الوهيته التى تقول انه اعلنها و لم توضح اين اعلن ذلك......فكيف لا نشك نحن ؟؟؟؟.

التلاميذ شكوا بعد صلب السيد المسيح و تفرقوا لكنه تيقنوا من حقيقة لاهوته بعد القيامة و نحن لا نشك لاننا واثقون من شهادتهم
التي بذلوا حياتهم من أجلها و لا أحد يبذل حياته من أجل كذبة ألفها .

اقتباس: كتب/كتبت
الاعداد التى ذكرتها تثبت عكس كلامك لانها توضح انه لم يقوم بمفرده فى عدد اعمال اقامه الله و فى عدد رومية روح القداسة هى التى عينته ابن الله بالقيامة من الاموات ....
اى ان سبب تسميته ابن الله هى اقامته من الاموات ....

كيف تثبت عكس كلامي ؟؟؟؟؟؟ هل نسيت عزيزي أن السيد المسيح كان له ناسوت بشري ؟؟؟؟ لقد أقام الله الناسوت البشري
لان لاهوت السيد المسيح لا يموت .

أما ان أن المسيح هو ابن الله لانه قام من الموت فهذا هو مربط الفرس و أنت أتفقت معي دون ان تدري , لقد شرحت لكفي اول مداخلاتي بهذا الموضوع معنى ابن الله و كيف أنه يثبت اللاهوت و يؤكده و لهذا قالت الآيات أن قيامة السيد المسيح برهنت على لاهوته فبرجاء مراجعة مداخلاتي مرة أخرى .


اقتباس: كتب/كتبت
النص واضح جدا سبب تعيينه ابن الله روح القداسة و قيامته من الاموات و هذا السبب يلغى الالوهية بما لا يدع مجال للشك . طالما هناك سبب فهناك مسبب اذن هو ليس اله باى معنى لاهوتى .
اوضح اكثر تعين ابن الله من جهة روح القداسة و بقوتها لانه قام من الاموات اذن لم يقم بمفرده هذا ما يقوله النص......................


سامحني بهذا التعبير فكلامك متخبط بشدة لان تعبير ابن الله أصلا يعبر عن الالوهية فكيف تقول انه ينفيها ؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟

روح القداسة عزيزي هي روح الله و هي نفسها روح السيد المسيح , راجع التالي أيضا

غلاطية 4 : 6ثُمَّ بِمَا أَنَّكُمْ أَبْنَاءٌ، أَرْسَلَ اللهُ رُوحَ ابْنِهِ إِلَى قُلُوبِكُمْ صَارِخاً: «يَا أَبَا الآبُ». 7إِذاً لَسْتَ بَعْدُ عَبْداً بَلِ ابْناً، وَإِنْ كُنْتَ ابْناً فَوَارِثٌ لِلَّهِ بِالْمَسِيحِ.


اقتباس: كتب/كتبت
النصوص التى بها سبب تسميته ابن الله تساعدنا و تسهل مهمتنا بصورة كبيرة و السبب هنا هو اقامته من الاموات و بولس يؤكد ان الاب هو الذى اقامه من الاموات و ليس يسوع الذى قام من نفسه انظر الاعداد التى ذكرتها انت :

راجع الرد السابق : السيد المسيح كان له ناسوت ( طبيعة ) بشرية و هي التي أقامها الله و هذا لا علاقة له بلاهوته لأن اللاهوت
لا يموت .

الآب المتحد بالابن أقام ناسوته من الموت ( الجسدي ) و بهذا تعين ( تبرهن ) و أكد أنه ابن الله باللاهوت .


اقتباس: كتب/كتبت
و طلبت منك من قبل الدليل على انه قام بمفرده و اكرره الان ما الدليل على انه قام بمفرده و عندنا نصوص صريحة تقول ان الله اقامه

الدليل شديد البساطة هل صلى أحد على السيد المسيح ليقوم من الاموات ؟؟؟؟؟ الدليل أيضا من الآيات نفسها التي تقول أنه تبرهن أو تثبت أنه ابن الله بقيامته من الاموات في تأكيد على لاهوته .


اقتباس: كتب/كتبت
يسوع حسب العدد الثالث من نسل داود و ممكن ان يسمى ابن الله لهذا السبب اذن الاعداد السابقة تحدد سبب التسمية بابن الله اما لكونه من نسل داود او بسبب ان الرب اقامه من الاموات و كلاهما ينفى اى الوهية ليسوع .


راجع عزيزي الآيات مرة اخرى و لاتتعجل الرد , الآيات تقول أن السيد المسيح من نسل داود ( بحسب الجسد ) و لا علاقة لذلك بتسميته ابن الله راجع بشارة الملاك للسيدة العذراء التي عرضتها لك في مداخلاتي تجد أن السيد المسيح دعي ابن الله لاته تجسد بحلول روح الله على السيدة العذراء و أن لاهوته اتخذ منها جسدا انسانيا .


اقتباس: كتب/كتبت
اى ان المثل هنا بين نور الله سبحانه و تعالى و ليس بين الله
الحديث عن نور الله و ليس عن الله بل عن مثل نور الله ................

نور الله هو الله كما يقول القرآن

( اللَّهُ نُورُ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضِ مَثَلُ نُورِهِ كَمِشْكَاةٍ فِيهَا مِصْبَاحٌ الْمِصْبَاحُ فِي زُجَاجَةٍ الزُّجَاجَةُ كَأَنَّهَا كَوْكَبٌ دُرِّيٌّ يُوقَدُ مِنْ شَجَرَةٍ مُبَارَكَةٍ زَيْتُونَةٍ لا شَرْقِيَّةٍ وَلا غَرْبِيَّةٍ يَكَادُ زَيْتُهَا يُضِيءُ وَلَوْ لَمْ تَمْسَسْهُ نَارٌ نُورٌ عَلَى نُورٍ يَهْدِي اللَّهُ لِنُورِهِ مَنْ يَشَاءُ وَيَضْرِبُ اللَّهُ الْأَمْثَالَ لِلنَّاسِ وَاللَّهُ بِكُلِّ شَيْءٍ عَلِيمٌ) (النور:35)

ثم راجع التالي من سورة النمل و تفاسيرها

إِذْ قَالَ مُوسَى لِأَهْلِهِ إِنِّي آنَسْتُ نَارًا سَآتِيكُم مِّنْهَا بِخَبَرٍ أَوْ آتِيكُم بِشِهَابٍ قَبَسٍ لَّعَلَّكُمْ تَصْطَلُونَ {7} فَلَمَّا
جَاءهَا نُودِيَ أَن بُورِكَ مَن فِي النَّارِ وَمَنْ حَوْلَهَا وَسُبْحَانَ اللَّهِ رَبِّ الْعَالَمِينَ {8} يَا مُوسَى إِنَّهُ أَنَا اللَّهُ الْعَزِيزُ الْحَكِيمُ {9}

http://quran.al-islam.com/Tafseer/DispTafs...a=27&nAya=8

20425 - حَدَّثني مُحَمَّد بْن سَعْد , قَالَ : ثني أَبِي , قَالَ : ثني عَمِّي , قَالَ : ثني أَبِي , عَنْ أَبِيهِ , عَنْ اِبْن عَبَّاس , فِي قَوْله : { فَلَمَّا جَاءَهَا نُودِيَ أَنْ بُورِكَ مَنْ فِي النَّار } يَعْنِي نَفْسه ; قَالَ : كَانَ نُور رَبّ الْعَالَمِينَ فِي الشَّجَرَة . 20426 -حَدَّثني إِسْمَاعِيل بْن الْهَيْثَم أَبُو الْعَالِيَة الْعَبْدِيّ , قَالَ : ثَنَا أَبُو قُتَيْبَة , عَنْ وَرْقَاء , عَنْ عَطَاء بْن السَّائِب , عَنْ سَعِيد بْن جُبَيْر , فِي قَوْل اللَّه : { بُورِكَ مَنْ فِي النَّار } قَالَ : نَادَاهُ وَهُوَ فِي النَّار . 20427 - حَدَّثَنَا الْقَاسِم , قَالَ : ثَنَا الْحُسَيْن , قَالَ : ثَنَا أَبُو سُفْيَان , عَنْ مَعْمَر , عَنْ الْحَسَن , فِي قَوْله : { نُودِيَ أَنْ بُورِكَ مَنْ فِي النَّار وَمَنْ حَوْلهَا } قَالَ : هُوَ النُّور . 20428 - قَالَ مَعْمَر : قَالَ قَتَادَة : { بُورِكَ مَنْ فِي النَّار } قَالَ : نُور اللَّه بُورِكَ. * - قَالَ : ثَنَا الْحُسَيْن , قَالَ : ثني حَجَّاج , عَنْ اِبْن جُرَيْج , قَالَ : قَالَ الْحَسَن الْبَصْرِيّ : { بُورِكَ مَنْ فِي النَّار } . وَقَالَ آخَرُونَ : بَلْ مَعْنَى ذَلِكَ : بُورِكَتْ النَّار . ذِكْر مَنْ قَالَ ذَلِكَ : 20429 -حَدَّثني الْحَارِث , قَالَ : ثَنَا الْأَشْيَب , قَالَ : ثَنَا وَرْقَاء , عَنْ اِبْن أَبِي نَجِيح , عَنْ مُجَاهِد : { نُودِيَ أَنْ بُورِكَ مَنْ فِي النَّار } بُورِكَتْ النَّار . كَذَلِكَ قَالَهُ اِبْن عَبَّاس . * - حَدَّثني مُحَمَّد بْن عَمْرو , قَالَ : ثَنَا أَبُو عَاصِم , قَالَ : ثَنَا عِيسَى ; وَحَدَّثني الْحَارِث , قَالَ : ثَنَا الْحَسَن , قَالَ : ثَنَا وَرْقَاء جَمِيعًا , عَنْ اِبْن أَبِي نَجِيح , عَنْ مُجَاهِد , فِي قَوْله : { أَنْ بُورِكَ مَنْ فِي النَّار } قَالَ : بُورِكَتْ النَّار. * - حَدَّثَنَا الْقَاسِم , قَالَ : ثَنَا الْحُسَيْن , قَالَ : ثني حَجَّاج , عَنْ اِبْن جُرَيْج , قَالَ : قَالَ مُجَاهِد : { بُورِكَ مَنْ فِي النَّار } قَالَ : بُورِكَتْ النَّار . 20430 - حَدَّثَنَا مُحَمَّد بْن سِنَان الْقَزَّاز , قَالَ : ثَنَا مَكِّيّ بْن إِبْرَاهِيم , قَالَ : ثَنَا مُوسَى , عَنْ مُحَمَّد بْن كَعْب , فِي قَوْله : { أَنْ بُورِكَ مَنْ فِي النَّار } نُور الرَّحْمَن , وَالنُّور هُوَ اللَّه { وَسُبْحَان اللَّه رَبّ الْعَالَمِينَ } .


اقتباس: كتب/كتبت
اذا كان ما تقوله صحيحا فلماذا اتهمه اليهود فى يوحنا انه ابن زنا ؟؟؟؟؟؟

سأكرر رد الاخ فانسي هني : أين نجد هذا الكلام في الانجيل بحسب يوحنا ؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟
, لا أعتقد أن له وجود .

اقتباس: كتب/كتبت
و لماذا نجد اتهامات كثيرة فى التلمود مثلا ان يسوع ابن زنا ؟؟

و ما علاقتنا بالتلمود ؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟


اقتباس: كتب/كتبت
و كيف تعتبرها معجزة و هى مكتوب كتابها كما تقول .

لانهم لم ( يجتمعا ) كما قال الكتب المقدس , راجع الآيات جيدا و لالاتعجل الرد .


اقتباس: كتب/كتبت
هل عندك دليل فى القران انهم شاهدوا اثار الحمل عليها اما القصص التى تفترضها فلا تصلح لا نى ممكن ان ارد بقصة اخرى و عشرات القصص ..............لنبحث فى النص نفسه فقط.....

الدليل عليك أنت انت تقدمه لكي تكون الرواية منطقية و محبوكة .

اقتباس: كتب/كتبت
بولس يقول ان الساقى و الغارس واحد و لكن كل سياخذ اجرته
فعندما يقول يسوع انا و الاب واحد فلا يعنى ذلك تساويهم ابدا بدليل قول بولس

مرة اخرى عزيزي راجع ردي جيدا و لاتتعجل الرد : الرسول بولس يقول أنا غرست و أبلوس سقى يعني الاثنان ( بشر ) و لهذا لا تصلح المقارنة بين كلام الرسول بولس و السيد المسيح لان بولس الرسول يقارن نفسه ببشر مثله و السيد المسيح يقارن نفسه بالله .

لا داعي لتكرار الكلام مرة أخرى .


اقتباس: كتب/كتبت
و اذا كنت تقول هل سبق احد و قال انه و الاب واحد فى الكتاب المقدس؟؟؟؟
الاجابة لم يحدث و لكن هذا لا يثبت شيئا

I rest my case


اقتباس: كتب/كتبت
و الدليل سؤال اخر اساله لك:
هل سبق ان قام احد بمصارعة الرب و الفوز عليه فى الكتاب المقدس كله غير يعقوب فى النص الشهير

لا داعي لتشتيت الموضوع هذه الشبة ردينا عليها أكثر من مرة و لا علاقة لها بحوارنا

ولك السلام و التحية
عبد المسيح
(تم إجراء آخر تعديل على هذه المشاركة: 04-15-2007, 05:02 PM بواسطة ABDELMESSIH67.)
04-15-2007, 04:53 PM
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الردود في هذا الموضوع
بحث فى مصطلح ابن الله فى العهد الجديد - بواسطة ABDELMESSIH67 - 04-15-2007, 04:53 PM

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