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/global.php 958 eval
/showthread.php 28 require_once
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/global.php 961 eval
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Warning [2] Undefined property: MyLanguage::$bottomlinks_returncontent - Line: 6 - File: global.php(1070) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/showthread.php 673 build_forum_jump
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/inc/functions.php 3442 eval
/showthread.php 673 build_forum_jump
Warning [2] Undefined property: MyLanguage::$forumjump_select - Line: 5 - File: inc/functions.php(3442) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/inc/functions.php 3442 eval
/showthread.php 673 build_forum_jump
Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code 2 errorHandler->error_callback
/showthread.php 1690 eval
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/showthread.php 1690 eval
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/showthread.php 1690 eval
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/showthread.php 1690 eval
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/inc/class_error.php 153 errorHandler->error
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/inc/functions_post.php 898 pluginSystem->run_hooks
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/inc/class_plugins.php 142 thankyoulike_postbit
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بحث فى مصطلح ابن الله فى العهد الجديد
eeww2000 غير متصل
عضو فعّال
***

المشاركات: 195
الانضمام: May 2003
مشاركة: #119
بحث فى مصطلح ابن الله فى العهد الجديد
الاخ العزيز الصفى :

اشكرك وارحب بك لاثراء المناقشة و لكن لنحاول ان نبقى فى الموضوع الذى يحاول فانس بشتى الطرق ان يخرجنا عنه و كما ترى هو لا يتكلم و يتوسع الا اذا كان الحوار بعيدا عن الموضوع الاصلى من البخارى الى ايوب الى اى شىء بعيد عن الموضوع او امور تتعلق بشخصى ..........!

عموما ردك محترم و لا غبار عليه و كافى و لا يختلف عن رايى كما يحاول فانس ان يظهر ذلك و نحن لسنا فى موقف دفاع ابدا و الحمد لله.

انا كل غرضى ان اثبت ان هناك اتهام من اليهود ردا على قول عبد المسيح و هو الذى فتح هذه النقطة .

و قد اثبت ذلك و الحمد لله و صدقنى لا يهم الوقت و انا على وعى تام بالرد منهم هنا و سيكون كما قال فانس ان القران ينقل من الكتب الابوكريفية و اذا اثبنا ان الكلام موجود فى الاناجيل سيقول ان القران ينقل من الاناجيل .

وفانس كالعادة يقول اشياء لا تمت للواقع بصلة فهو يقول :
لا يهم !!!!
مع ان الحوار هو ( هل اتهم اليهود المسيح اثناء حياته ؟)
و الان لا يهم !!!

و هذا غير حقيقى فان عبد المسيح قال ان اليهود لم يتهموا المسيح فذكرت ادلة على ان ذلك حدث و ذكرت اقوال مسيحيين لا شك فى ايمانهم يقرروا ان النص فى يوحنا بل وفى مرقص 6: 3 كلها تعريض بيسوع و اتهام له اى ان هذا القول ليس رايي انا بل راى كثيرين من علمائهم الذى قال احدهم ان يوسف النجار نفسه اتهم السيدة مريم ......!!!!!!


وبخصوص العدد فى لوقا 3 : 23 عندى ردود كثيرة على فانس ساكتفى بدليل واحد حتى لا يتحير فانس لانه كسول جدا ينتظر ان اختار له الدليل الذى يرد عليه .....

لوقا 3 : 23وَلَمَّا ابْتَدَأَ يَسُوعُ كَانَ لَهُ نَحْوُ ثَلاَثِينَ سَنَةً وَهُوَ عَلَى مَا كَانَ يُظَنُّ ابْنَ يُوسُفَ بْنِ هَالِي


يقول فانس:
-فهم الزميل ان ( يظن ) تفيد ان بعض الناس يظنون و البعض لا يظنون

هذا شئ غريب
هذا شئ مناقض تماما للايات قطعية الدلالة التى تحدد من هو المسيح في ظن اليهود


لهذا بدقة شديدة استخدم البشير ( يظن )
بدون اي لجوء الي فكر اعرج لتأييد ما يدعيه الزميل

الزميل الذي استخدم ( يظن ) كدليل علي انه ( لا يظن )

الرد :

عندى مراجع كثيرة ترد على فانس ساضع واحد فقط حتى لا يشتت نفسه و حتى لا نخرج كثيرا عن الموضوع ..................

و لكن اساله سؤال هل هناك اى مرجع مسيحى يتحدث عن نصوص قطعية الدلالة من اين تعلمت هذه الكلمة و اى قس علمها لك و هل عندك نصوص ظنية الدلالة ام كلها قطعية و هل تعتبر ان النص "على ما يظن" قطعى الدلالة ؟؟؟؟؟؟. و اذا اعتبرته قطعى الدلالة فكيف تعتبره قطعى الثبوت ؟؟؟؟؟؟؟


و النص نفسه يفيد ان كاتبه يظن غير ظن اليهود فلا مانع ان يكون هناك من يظن مثل لوقا و ان يكون هناك من يظن ظن اخر هذا ما قلته و لا يحتاج الى فهامة و لا يمكن اثبات عكسه فكلها ظنون


و اليك النص التالى :

من تفسير العهد الجديد القس أنطونيوس فكري
اليك صورة النص اولا :

[صورة: pic1arq8.gif]


هل ترى ماذا يقول ؟؟؟؟؟
ان اليهود اذا تعذر عليهم معرفة الاب ينسبون الطفل لجده ابو امه لذلك قال لوقا انه على ما يظن ابن يوسف ابن هالى ؟؟؟؟؟.

اذن على ما يظن ابن يوسف ابن هالى هى بسبب تعذر معرفة الاب هذا ما يقوله انطونيوس فكرى و عندما يقول انطونيوس هناك راى اخر يكون معناها انه غير متاكد اى انه يظن ان النص فى لوقا "على ما يظن" معناه ان السبب هو عدم معرفة الاب ؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟

اذن سبب القول ابن يوسف ابن هالى هو تعذر معرفة الاب فنسبوا الطفل الى جده



و لاحظ ايضا انطونيوس يستشهد بالتلمود لانه وجده ينفعه هذه المرة و عندما ذكرت انا التلمود قال عبد المسيح مالنا و مال التلمود ؟؟؟ و يقول ان هالى هو والد السيدة مريم او جدها لاحظ حرف "او" هنا هل هو قطعي الدلالة ......................!!!!!!!!!
للخروج من التناقض فى نسب يسوع بين لوقا ومتى يلجا المفسرون الى التلمود و عندما استخدمه انا يقول البعض مالنا ومال التلمود و نفس التلمود الذى يستشهد به انطونيوس به اتهام ليسوع انه ابن غير شرعى ؟؟؟؟؟؟؟. هل نستشهد بالتلمود ام لا نستشهد .............الله المستعان ..................

اكتفى بدليل واحد و فانس يعلم ان عندى الكثير و لكن ليس عندى وقت و لا اريد الخروج عن الموضوع اكثر من ذلك..

لنعود الى المناقشة الاصلية ...........

اشكرك و اتمنى وجودك فى الحوار دائما

و الله من وراء القصد و الحمد لله رب العالمين ........
04-30-2007, 07:30 AM
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بحث فى مصطلح ابن الله فى العهد الجديد - بواسطة eeww2000 - 04-30-2007, 07:30 AM

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