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/global.php 958 eval
/showthread.php 28 require_once
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/global.php 961 eval
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/showthread.php 673 build_forum_jump
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/inc/functions.php 3442 eval
/showthread.php 673 build_forum_jump
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/showthread.php 673 build_forum_jump
Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1686) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code 2 errorHandler->error_callback
/showthread.php 1690 eval
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/showthread.php 1690 eval
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/showthread.php 1690 eval
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/inc/class_error.php 153 errorHandler->error
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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{myadvertisements[zone_1]}
مِنْ أجلِ خلاصٍ صحيح .. لا بد منْ زواجِ المسيح
ABDELMESSIH67 غير متصل
عضو رائد
*****

المشاركات: 2,348
الانضمام: Jul 2003
مشاركة: #15
مِنْ أجلِ خلاصٍ صحيح .. لا بد منْ زواجِ المسيح
( 2 \ 2 )

[quote name='slave of Allah' post='423435' date='Jun 12 2007, 11:30 AM']
وصحيح أن ما قاله كان إحدى الأمور التي هُرْطِقَ بها (بيلاجيوس) الراهب في القرن الخامس عندما قال أن خطيئة آدم كانت قاصرة على نفسه... وصحيح أن ما قاله لا يتفق وفلسفة الخلاص والكفارة، لأن الميل للخطية ليست خطية تستدعي أن يصلب لها المسيح، وأنه إن كان حقاً هناك صلب وخلاص فمن الخطية لا من القابلية للخطية أو الميل لها.. فالعقوبة على الخطية نفسها.
فليس القابلية للخطية خطية ولا الميل لها مادام لم يفعلها الإنسان.
[/quote]

سيدي الفاضل , مين بيلاجوس هذا ؟؟؟؟؟ هذه اول مرة أسمع عنه .
ثم عزيزي الميل للخطية أصبح طبيعة داخلية دخلت بعد السقوط في تكوين الانسان و طالما هي موجودة أذا لابد أنها تدفع الانسان دفعا للمعصية لان الانسان فقد بسببها نقاوته التي خلقه بها الله .

راجع مرة أخرى الآيات لترى الفكرة التي أحدثك عنها :

رومية 5 : 12مِنْ أَجْلِ ذَلِكَ كَأَنَّمَا بِإِنْسَانٍ وَاحِدٍ دَخَلَتِ الْخَطِيَّةُ إِلَى الْعَالَمِ وَبِالْخَطِيَّةِ الْمَوْتُ وَهَكَذَا اجْتَازَ الْمَوْتُ إِلَى جَمِيعِ النَّاسِ إِذْ أَخْطَأَ الْجَمِيعُ.

بانسان واحد دخلت الخطية الى العالم أي الطبيعة الخاطئة التي دخلت في تكوين الانسان و هي التي جعلت الكل يخطأ
لهذا تقول الآيات : إِذْ أَخْطَأَ الْجَمِيعُ.
فالطبيعة الخاطئة كالمرض أو الجرثومة التي بعد دخولها تصيب الانسان بالامراض الروحية التي تجعله
يرتكب المعاصي .

[quote name='slave of Allah' post='423435' date='Jun 12 2007, 11:30 AM']
وصحيح أيضاً أن زميلنا اختار لنفسه اسم عبد المسيح وكتب تحتها أن (العدل والرحمة التقيا ) .... والعدل يكون بالقصاص والعقوبة ........ والعقوبة والقصاص لا تكون إلا على الخطية لا الميل لها.
[/quote]

الميل للخطية هو الذي يؤدي الى فعلها .

[quote name='slave of Allah' post='423435' date='Jun 12 2007, 11:30 AM']
سأتفق مع الزميل الفاضل أن الميل للخطية هي ما ورثناه عن آدم عليه السلام ....
وسنقدر أن الخلاص من الميل للخطية لا من الخطية نفسها ....
[/quote]

متفق معك بالنقطة الاولى و لكن النقطة الثانية اختلف معك فيها فالخلاص ليس من الميل للخطية و لكن من الخطية
التي جاءت بسبب دخول الميل لها في الطبيعة البشرية .

[quote name='slave of Allah' post='423435' date='Jun 12 2007, 11:30 AM']
لكن هل هذا الميل للخطية يحتاج إلى خلاص أم لا يحتاج؟
لاشك أنه يحتاج إلى الخلاص .. وإلا فما فائدة صلب المسيح.
إذن هذا الميل للخطية يحتاج إلى خلاص.
[/quote]

مرة أخرى , الميل للخطية يؤدي الى الخطية و لا يوجد فصل بين الاثنان .

[quote name='slave of Allah' post='423435' date='Jun 12 2007, 11:30 AM']
وأدم الأول هو أدم الذي نعرفه، وأدم الأخير هو المسيح (الذي يعرفه بولس).
لكن هل ورثنا الميل للخطية من آدم وحده؟
[/quote]

نعم .

[quote name='slave of Allah' post='423435' date='Jun 12 2007, 11:30 AM']
ألسنا أبناء رجل وامرأة؟ (أما قرأتم أن الذي خلق من البدء خلقهما ذكر وأنثى.)
[/quote]

كلام سليم و لكن الرجل هو الاساس لانه خلق اولا و من ضلعه خلقت المرأة و لهذا تأتي هذه الخاصية ( الطبيعة الساقطة )
من الرجل فقط و لا تشترك معه المراة فيها .

[quote name='slave of Allah' post='423435' date='Jun 12 2007, 11:30 AM']
وبولس الرسول نفسه يعلم أنه لا بد من حواء جديدة أيضاً حتى يكون الخلاص تاماً ...
[/quote]

كلام غير سليم و لا يوجد أي آيات أو تعليم يقول بهذا .

[quote name='slave of Allah' post='423435' date='Jun 12 2007, 11:30 AM']
لكنه لم يجد للمسيح امرأة ... فرأى أن يكون المؤمنون هم عروس المسيح.
[/quote]

تعبير ان الكنيسة ( مجموع المؤمنون ) هي عروس للرب هو تعبير مستخدم منذ العهد القديم و دائما ما كان
الله يعبر عن العلاقة بينه و بين شعبه بالعلاقة الزوجية بين الرجل و أمرأته و كان دائما الله يعتبر خطية شعبه ضده
بالعصيان و التمرد نوع من ( الزنى ) الروحي و الخيانة و لهذا جاء سفر مثل نشيد الانشاد الذي تعترضون عليه كثيرا
لتوضيح تلك العلاقة بين الله و شعبه كالعلاقة بين الرجل و زوجته لان في علاقتهما تستمر الحياة .

في علاقة الرجل و زوجته تولد الحياة و تتجدد و في علاقة الله و شعبه تولد الحياة الروحية و تتجدد للأجيال الجديدة
التي تنمو و تترعرع على الايمان .

الرسول بولس يستخدم نفس التشبيهات الموجودة في العهد القديم و لا يفهم من هذا الفكرة الغريبة التي تتحدث
عنها .


[quote name='slave of Allah' post='423435' date='Jun 12 2007, 11:30 AM']
فإذا جاء المسيح ليكون بديلاً لآدم الأول، ونظرنا إليه أنه آدم الجديد..فسوف نظل في حاجة إلى حواء جديدة،
[/quote]

فكرة مكررة سبق الرد عليها , حواء فرع من آدم و خلاص السيد المسيح للبشرية كلها و بالتالي يشمل النساء
أيضا لانهم فرع من الرجل .

عزيزي الموضوعه بسيط و لا يحتاج لجدل كثير


[quote name='slave of Allah' post='423435' date='Jun 12 2007, 11:30 AM']
ماذا فعل اللاهوت لنا لإعانتنا بعدما تجسد؟ أين المثل والقدوة الحسنة؟
أين تجربته مع المرأة زوجةً، ومع الأبناء أباً... أين إعانته لنا في ذلك؟
[/quote]

ما هو وجه المساعدة و الاعانة الذي تحتاجه في علاقتك بالمرأة ؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟

أنت ترتبط بامرأة واحدة و تعيش معها حياتك الزوجية ببساطة , ما وجه الصعوبة في ذلك الذي يقتضي أن الله يساعدك فيه ؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟

[quote name='slave of Allah' post='423435' date='Jun 12 2007, 11:30 AM']
فلماذا يحجم ابن الله أن يتزوج المرأة؟ وهل هناك امتهان للمرأة أكثر من أن يعف عنها ناسوت ابن الله فلا يقربها زوجةً، أويرتبط بها إنساناً أنثى؟
[/quote]

لانه لاتوجد شركة بين النور و الظلمة فلا يعقل أن الناسوت يتحد بأي شخص مهما كان لان الكل رجال و نساء يحملون الطبيعة
الفاسدة المتوارثة عن ىدم كما سبق و أوضحت .

من يتزوج كما يقول الكتاب : يترك أباه و امه و يصير الاثنان جسدا واحدا فكيف يكون الناسوت المتحد باللاهوت متحدا
بجسد آخر فاسد يحمل طبيعة خاطئة ؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟

ما رأيك ؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟

أليس هذا الكلام غير منطقي ؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟


ولك السلام و التحية
عبد المسيح
(تم إجراء آخر تعديل على هذه المشاركة: 06-14-2007, 02:02 PM بواسطة ABDELMESSIH67.)
06-14-2007, 01:53 PM
عرض جميع مشاركات هذا العضو إقتباس هذه الرسالة في الرد
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الردود في هذا الموضوع
مِنْ أجلِ خلاصٍ صحيح .. لا بد منْ زواجِ المسيح - بواسطة ABDELMESSIH67 - 06-14-2007, 01:53 PM

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