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/global.php 958 eval
/showthread.php 28 require_once
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/global.php 961 eval
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/showthread.php 673 build_forum_jump
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/inc/functions.php 3442 eval
/showthread.php 673 build_forum_jump
Warning [2] Undefined property: MyLanguage::$forumjump_select - Line: 5 - File: inc/functions.php(3442) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/showthread.php 673 build_forum_jump
Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1686) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code 2 errorHandler->error_callback
/showthread.php 1690 eval
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/showthread.php 1690 eval
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/showthread.php 1690 eval
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/showthread.php 1690 eval
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/inc/class_error.php 153 errorHandler->error
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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مِنْ أجلِ خلاصٍ صحيح .. لا بد منْ زواجِ المسيح
ABDELMESSIH67 غير متصل
عضو رائد
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المشاركات: 2,348
الانضمام: Jul 2003
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مِنْ أجلِ خلاصٍ صحيح .. لا بد منْ زواجِ المسيح
( 1 \ 2 )
عزيزي عبد الله , الاخوة الافاضل

كيف حالك , عذرا للتأخر عليك بالرد لضغوط العمل

Array
صحيح أن ما قاله أننا لم نرث خطية آدم،مخالف لما ذكره بولس الرسول في رسالة رومية ونقله هو لنا في قوله (هكذا اجتاز الموت الى جميع الناس اذ أخطا الجميع ) رومية 5: 12
[/quote]

من قال أن كلامي متناقض مع كلام الرسول بولس ؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟ على العكس انا استقيت الكلام من رسالته لاهل رومية
السؤال الذي أوجهه لشخصك الفاضل هو الآتي :

ما الذي جعلك تعتقد ان هذه الآيات تعني أننا ورثنا خطية آدم ؟؟؟؟؟

رومية 5 : 12مِنْ أَجْلِ ذَلِكَ كَأَنَّمَا بِإِنْسَانٍ وَاحِدٍ دَخَلَتِ الْخَطِيَّةُ إِلَى الْعَالَمِ وَبِالْخَطِيَّةِ الْمَوْتُ وَهَكَذَا اجْتَازَ الْمَوْتُ إِلَى جَمِيعِ النَّاسِ إِذْ أَخْطَأَ الْجَمِيعُ.

رومية 5 : 15 وَلَكِنْ لَيْسَ كَالْخَطِيَّةِ هَكَذَا أَيْضاً الْهِبَةُ. لأَنَّهُ إِنْ كَانَ بِخَطِيَّةِ وَاحِدٍ مَاتَ الْكَثِيرُونَ فَبِالأَوْلَى كَثِيراً نِعْمَةُ اللهِ وَالْعَطِيَّةُ بِالنِّعْمَةِ الَّتِي بِالإِنْسَانِ الْوَاحِدِ يَسُوعَ الْمَسِيحِ قَدِ ازْدَادَتْ لِلْكَثِيرِينَ. 16وَلَيْسَ كَمَا بِوَاحِدٍ قَدْ أَخْطَأَ هَكَذَا الْعَطِيَّةُ. لأَنَّ الْحُكْمَ مِنْ وَاحِدٍ لِلدَّيْنُونَةِ وَأَمَّا الْهِبَةُ فَمِنْ جَرَّى خَطَايَا كَثِيرَةٍ لِلتَّبْرِيرِ. 17لأَنَّهُ إِنْ كَانَ بِخَطِيَّةِ الْوَاحِدِ قَدْ مَلَكَ الْمَوْتُ بِالْوَاحِدِ فَبِالأَوْلَى كَثِيراً الَّذِينَ يَنَالُونَ فَيْضَ النِّعْمَةِ وَعَطِيَّةَ الْبِرِّ سَيَمْلِكُونَ فِي الْحَيَاةِ بِالْوَاحِدِ يَسُوعَ الْمَسِيحِ. 18فَإِذاً كَمَا بِخَطِيَّةٍ وَاحِدَةٍ صَارَ الْحُكْمُ إِلَى جَمِيعِ النَّاسِ لِلدَّيْنُونَةِ هَكَذَا بِبِرٍّ وَاحِدٍ صَارَتِ الْهِبَةُ إِلَى جَمِيعِ النَّاسِ لِتَبْرِيرِ الْحَيَاةِ. 19لأَنَّهُ كَمَا بِمَعْصِيَةِ الإِنْسَانِ الْوَاحِدِ جُعِلَ الْكَثِيرُونَ خُطَاةً هَكَذَا أَيْضاً بِإِطَاعَةِ الْوَاحِدِ سَيُجْعَلُ الْكَثِيرُونَ أَبْرَاراً.

هذه الآيات كلها تتحدث عن وراثة ( طبيعة ) معينة من آدم جاءت كنتيجة لخطيته , هذه الطبيعة الساقطة هي التي تدفعنا للخطية و أرتكابها و على هذا أخطأ الجميع كما تقول الآيات و لهذا مات السيد المسيح من أجل خطايا ( الجميع ) و ليس من أجل ( خطية ) آدم فقط .

راجع التالي لترى صدق كلام الرسول بولس و تأكيد باقي الرسل عليه من أن السيد المسيح مات من اجل ( خطايا الجميع ) و ليس من أجل ( خطية واحدة ) فقط .

( العبرانيين 1 : الَّذِي، وَهُوَ بَهَاءُ مَجْدِهِ، وَرَسْمُ جَوْهَرِهِ، وَحَامِلٌ كُلَّ الأَشْيَاءِ بِكَلِمَةِ قُدْرَتِهِ، بَعْدَ مَا صَنَعَ بِنَفْسِهِ تَطْهِيراً لِخَطَايَانَا )

هل ترى عزيزي ما تقوله الآيات : تطهيرا لخطايانا و لم تقل ( تطهيرا لخطية آدم )

رسالة يوحنا الأولي 2 : 1يَا أَوْلاَدِي، أَكْتُبُ إِلَيْكُمْ هَذَا لِكَيْ لاَ تُخْطِئُوا. وَإِنْ أَخْطَأَ أَحَدٌ فَلَنَا شَفِيعٌ عِنْدَ الآبِ، يَسُوعُ الْمَسِيحُ الْبَارُّ. 2وَهُوَ كَفَّارَةٌ لِخَطَايَانَا. لَيْسَ لِخَطَايَانَا فَقَطْ، بَلْ لِخَطَايَا كُلِّ الْعَالَمِ أَيْضاً.

هل ترى ما تقوله الآيات : كفارة لخطايانا و خطايا العالم و لم تقل ( تطهيرا لخطية آدم )

و للتأكيد على تلكم الفكرة يوضح الرسول بولس أكثر و أكثر معنى ( الطبيعة أو الناموس ) الداخلي المتوارث عن آدم كنتيجة لخطيته

رومية 22 فَإِنِّي أُسَرُّ بِنَامُوسِ اللهِ بِحَسَبِ الإِنْسَانِ الْبَاطِنِ. 23وَلَكِنِّي أَرَى نَامُوساً آخَرَ فِي أَعْضَائِي يُحَارِبُ نَامُوسَ ذِهْنِي وَيَسْبِينِي إِلَى نَامُوسِ الْخَطِيَّةِ الْكَائِنِ فِي أَعْضَائِي. 24وَيْحِي أَنَا الإِنْسَانُ الشَّقِيُّ! مَنْ يُنْقِذُنِي مِنْ جَسَدِ هَذَا الْمَوْتِ؟

يهيئ لي أنا بهذا وضحت الفكرة باستفاضة و لا داعي لتكرار الآيات مرة اخرى .

( يتبع )
(تم إجراء آخر تعديل على هذه المشاركة: 06-14-2007, 01:40 PM بواسطة ABDELMESSIH67.)
06-14-2007, 01:36 PM
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الردود في هذا الموضوع
مِنْ أجلِ خلاصٍ صحيح .. لا بد منْ زواجِ المسيح - بواسطة ABDELMESSIH67 - 06-14-2007, 01:36 PM

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