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/global.php 958 eval
/showthread.php 28 require_once
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/global.php 961 eval
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/showthread.php 673 build_forum_jump
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/showthread.php 673 build_forum_jump
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/showthread.php 673 build_forum_jump
Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1686) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/showthread.php 1690 eval
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/showthread.php 1690 eval
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/inc/class_error.php 153 errorHandler->error
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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مِنْ أجلِ خلاصٍ صحيح .. لا بد منْ زواجِ المسيح
ABDELMESSIH67 غير متصل
عضو رائد
*****

المشاركات: 2,348
الانضمام: Jul 2003
مشاركة: #16
مِنْ أجلِ خلاصٍ صحيح .. لا بد منْ زواجِ المسيح
عزيزي ديب بلو سي , الاخوة الافاضل

Array
لا أفضل التلاعب بالألفاظ لذا لنكن أكثر دقة

و من الذي جعل طبيعة أبوكم أدم قابلة للافساد و التحول الى طبيعة ميالة للخطية ؟
[/quote]

ما حكاية ( أبوكم ) آدم هذه ؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟ ألست انت الاخر من بني آدم ام ربما من بني مزار أو بني مر
كجمال عبد الناصر و لكن عزيزي حتى أبناء بني مر و بني مزار هم من بني آدم أيضا .......مجرد مداعبة .
الذي أفسد طبيعة آدم هو فعل ما غير منها مرموز له بالاكل من الشجرة المحرمة .

Array
فنحن وفقا لدينك نحاسب على نتيجة فعل شخص لم نراه حتى
[/quote]

هذا قانون طبيعي عزيزي فلو زرعت شجرة برتقال لا تثمر لك ألا البرتقال و لو لوثت نبع نهر من الطبيعي
أن تجد كافة روافده ملوثة مثله .
هل يعقل أن تجد منبع النهر ملوث و روافده نقية ؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟
بالمناسبة لو درست ( دينك ) أيضا لوجدت انه يقول نفس الكلام فآدم طرد من الجنة هو و ( ذريته ) بعد السقوط فما ذنب
ذريته لكي تهبط من الجنة هي الاخرى ؟؟؟؟؟؟

Array
لو فرضنا أن شخص أنفه سليم و لكنه يحب القفز من فوق الأسوار و وقع فانكسر أنفه أثناء ذلك هل تولد ذريته مكسورة الأنف ؟ من الغباء أن نقول نعم
و أنت قلت سابقا أن أبوك أدم كان في الأصل ذو طبيعة نقية و نتيجة سلوك معين تغيرت طبيعته لذا فالمنطقي أن يرث الأبناء الصفات الأصلية لأنهم لا علاقة لهم بتصرف الأب ، هذا اذا كانت الطبيعة تورث من الاساس
[/quote]

تشبيه غير مطابق لان ما حدث ( لابونا و أبوك ) آدم أحدث تغيير دائم في ( طبيعته ) و ليس مجرد تغيير ( ظاهري )
في شكله او انفه او رجله أو عينه كما اوضحت في مثالك .

Array
سيد عبد المسيح ألم تقل بنفسك ( لهذا حكم الله على البشر بالموت الجسدي بانفصال الروح عن الجسد و تحلل الجسد للتراب الذي خلق منه بعد ان فسدت طبيعته . )
و الأن أصبح الفداء لا علاقة له بهذا الأمر و لكن من أجل الحياة الأخرى !
أحد قوليك خطأ و عليك أن تحدد ..
اما أن الفداء جاء لكي ينقذنا من تطبيق حكم الخطية و افساد الطبيعة و هو الموت .. و اما أن الفداء ليس له علاقة بحكم الخطية لأن الحكم سيطبق و بالتالي فهو ليس فداء و لكن له علاقة بأمر أخر تماما و هو الحياة المفترضة بعد الموت و التي لم يرد ذكرها بتاتا في العقاب على خطية افساد الطبيعة
[/quote]

عزيزي الجسد الارضي دخلت الخطية في تكوينه لهذا قال الله لآدم في سفر التكوين أنه سيعيده للأرض و التراب الذي خلق منه
هذه قضية منتهية لانه لا شئ سيعيد الحياة لهذا الجسد الفاني .
الفداء جاء لتعويض الله عن هذه الحياة التي فسدت بحياة مماثلة , من يتقدم لله بهذه الحياة ( حياة السيد المسيح ) يكون قد عادل حياته و جسده الذي فسد بالخطية بحياة مساوية و مكافئة و بالتالي يكون قد سدد الدين المستحق عليه و على هذا يصبح من حقه نوال جسد جديد في حياة جديدة و عالم جديد الذي هو ملكوت السموات .
أذا فالفداء جاء من أجل الحياة القادمة و كتعويضا لله عن الحياة القديمة .
أرجو أن اكون قد أوضحت .

Array
هل نفهم من هذا أن من لن يؤمن بيسوع و فدائه لن يجد جسد و لن يحيا
[/quote]

نعم لان لانه سيكون مازال مدينا للعدل الآلهي بحياة مماثلة لحياته و لم يسددها بعد تماما كما تقترض عهدة من مالكها
و تقوم بتبديدها دون ان تعوض مالكها عنها .
الله أعطانا الحياة و هي ملك له على سبيل العهدة سيحاسبنا عليها بعد انتهائها لهذا يقول : أعطوني حسابا عن وكالتكم
لو أفسدنا هذه العهدة بخطايانا و بددنا تلك الحياة بدليل تحلل جسدنا و موتنا الجسدي وجب علينا تعويض مالكها عنها و هو ما فعله السيد المسيح نيابة عنا .

لهذا السبب عزيزي نجد الذبيحة فرضا على بني آدم منذ ظهور البشرية , راجع التالي من فضلك

( وَاتْلُ عَلَيْهِمْ نَبَأَ ابْنَيْ آدَمَ بِالْحَقِّ إِذْ قَرَّبَا قُرْبَاناً فَتُقُبِّلَ مِنْ أَحَدِهِمَا وَلَمْ يُتَقَبَّلْ مِنَ الْآخَرِ قَالَ لَأَقْتُلَنَّكَ قَالَ إِنَّمَا يَتَقَبَّلُ اللَّهُ مِنَ الْمُتَّقِينَ) (المائدة:27)


Array
طبيعة روحية ..!
أصبحت الطبيعة الروحية لها قوانين وراثة أيضا و أنت تعرفها و لكن بالطبع لا تملك دليلا واحدا على كلامك و تريدنا ان نصدق بعدها أليس كذلك يا سيد عبد المسيح ؟
[/quote]

الدليل على أي عقيدة روحية هو ( الايمان ) الذي لا يتعارض مع العقل حتى و ان كان فوقه .

كما تؤمن انت بالعديد من الحقائق الروحية دون ان يكون لديك دليلا عليها .

عبد المسيح
06-14-2007, 02:38 PM
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الردود في هذا الموضوع
مِنْ أجلِ خلاصٍ صحيح .. لا بد منْ زواجِ المسيح - بواسطة ABDELMESSIH67 - 06-14-2007, 02:38 PM

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