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/global.php 958 eval
/showthread.php 28 require_once
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/global.php 961 eval
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/showthread.php 673 build_forum_jump
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/inc/functions.php 3442 eval
/showthread.php 673 build_forum_jump
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/showthread.php 673 build_forum_jump
Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1686) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code 2 errorHandler->error_callback
/showthread.php 1690 eval
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/showthread.php 1690 eval
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/showthread.php 1690 eval
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/showthread.php 1690 eval
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/inc/class_error.php 153 errorHandler->error
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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نادي الفكر العربي / الســـــــــاحات الاختصاصيـــــة / الحوار الديني v / هل هل كتب يوحنا قصة الزانية ؟

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هل هل كتب يوحنا قصة الزانية ؟
العميد غير متصل
عضو رائد
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المشاركات: 934
الانضمام: Jul 2003
مشاركة: #12
هل هل كتب يوحنا قصة الزانية ؟
fancyhoney كتب :
Array
2- دليل الاحتمالات

وردت القصة محل الكلام في عدة مخطوطات لانجيل القديس يوحنا اختار منها ثلاث مخطوطات

1- المخطوطة Sy-Pal
تنتمى الي عائلة المخطوطات السريانية و تعود الي القرن الخامس و كتبت في الشرق ( فلسطين غالبا )

2- المخطوطات ( ff2 \Itd \ ite)
تنتمى الي عائلة المخطوطات اللاتينية القديمة و تعود الي القرن الخامس و كتبت في الغرب

3- المجلد D
وهو مجلد ( بيزا ) و الذي لا يتجاوز تاريخه بحسب الدراسات الحديثة اوائل القرن الخامس
و يمتاز هذا المجلد بلغة تبعد مسافة كبيرة و بقدر مساو عن النص اللاتيني و النص اليوناني السكندري معا
هذه ثلاث عائلات للمخطوطات مختلفة اللغة و الاسلوب .. و الكاتب , و لكن كلها اتفقت على ايراد القصة في نفس المكان في انجيل القديس يوحنا !

وجود هذه القصة بالذات , في هذا المكان بالذات , في تلك العائلات المختلفة يؤكد وجود تقليد شديد القوة ينسب هذه القصة الي القديس يوحنا في هذا المكان
فلو افترضنا جدلا الرغبة في اضافة قصة ما و نسبتها للمسيح , فهل يصدف اختيار نفس القصة (دونا عن قصص كثيرة ) في نفس الانجيل ( انجيل يوحنا دونا عن باقى الاناجيل ) في نفس المكان ( بين الاصحاحين السابع و الثامن اصطلاحا ) ؟

اننا نتكلم عن عدم امكانية حدوث ما سبق وسط الاف الاحتمالات , بل و نضيف اليها من القرائن ما يجزم باستحالة تعمد اضافة هذا النص

قرينة 1 : هي الدليل رقم 1 من ادلة الخصم , و هو دليل جدلي بفرض عدم استقامة سياق القصة في وضعها الحالي , فكيف اتفق الاشخاص على اضافة قصة بعينها في انجيل بعينه في مكان معين , و بمجرد قراءة هذه القصة في هذا المكان سيكتشف عدم تناسقها مع السياق كما ذهب المخالفون الي ذلك ؟
الاولى بمن اراد اقحام النص عمدا ان يضعه في مكان يستقيم معه السياق , لا ان يضعه في مكان مثير للشك .
و هكذا فان الاتفاق على هذا المكان المثير للشك قرينة لعدم وجود النية في اقحام النص اقحاما في غير محله

قرينة 2 : سهولة اخفاء نص اصلى مقارنة باضافة نص غير اصلي اعتبر ( مشكلا )
و هو الدليل رقم 2 من ادلة الخصم اي المخطوطات التى حذفت القصة , فسهل عليها ان تتفق على حذف قصة اعتبرت ( غير مرغوب فيها ) و يظهر مثيل ذلك في مثال 3 من امثلة اخفاء النصوص و هو مجرد ( عدم الذكر \ الكتابة \ التحديث ) , و يؤكد عدم الرغبة في تلك القصة عدد محدود من المخطوطات اخذ القصة برمتها و لم يكتبها في مكانها بل وضعها في مكان شاذ , و كأنه يضيف من تأكيد العلامة اغسطين على استشكال تلك القصة , و كل ما سبق سهل و مفسر اكثر من الاصرار على اضافة تلك القصة ( المعتبرة مسيئة ) في هذا المكان المحدد

راجع مشكورا الادلة و الامثلة على (الحذف \ الاخفاء ) من هنا
http://www.nadyelfikr.net/index.php?showtopic=50110&st=0

فصعوبة الاتفاق - ان كانت مجرد صعوبة - على اضافة قصة بالمواصفات السابقة يصب في مصلحة اصالة القصة اكثر من اعتبار غياب القصة من المخطوطات دليلا على زيفها .
تحياتي
[/quote]
10-24-2007, 11:45 AM
زيارة موقع العضو عرض جميع مشاركات هذا العضو إقتباس هذه الرسالة في الرد
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الردود في هذا الموضوع
هل هل كتب يوحنا قصة الزانية ؟ - بواسطة العميد - 10-24-2007, 11:45 AM
هل هل كتب يوحنا قصة الزانية ؟ - بواسطة Serpico - 10-24-2007, 10:30 PM,
هل هل كتب يوحنا قصة الزانية ؟ - بواسطة zaidgalal - 10-28-2007, 02:58 PM,
هل هل كتب يوحنا قصة الزانية ؟ - بواسطة ayoop2 - 10-28-2007, 03:53 PM,
هل هل كتب يوحنا قصة الزانية ؟ - بواسطة zaidgalal - 10-28-2007, 03:59 PM,
هل هل كتب يوحنا قصة الزانية ؟ - بواسطة ayoop2 - 10-28-2007, 04:36 PM,
هل هل كتب يوحنا قصة الزانية ؟ - بواسطة Fadie - 10-31-2007, 04:03 PM,
هل هل كتب يوحنا قصة الزانية ؟ - بواسطة ayoop2 - 11-01-2007, 04:43 AM,
هل هل كتب يوحنا قصة الزانية ؟ - بواسطة kimo14th - 11-01-2007, 04:23 PM,
هل هل كتب يوحنا قصة الزانية ؟ - بواسطة ayoop2 - 11-02-2007, 05:14 AM,
هل هل كتب يوحنا قصة الزانية ؟ - بواسطة ayoop2 - 11-03-2007, 06:51 PM,
هل هل كتب يوحنا قصة الزانية ؟ - بواسطة - ANTI - 11-04-2007, 03:33 PM,
هل هل كتب يوحنا قصة الزانية ؟ - بواسطة eeww2000 - 11-07-2007, 03:33 PM,
هل هل كتب يوحنا قصة الزانية ؟ - بواسطة ayoop2 - 11-08-2007, 02:00 AM,
هل هل كتب يوحنا قصة الزانية ؟ - بواسطة ayoop2 - 11-08-2007, 02:46 AM,
هل هل كتب يوحنا قصة الزانية ؟ - بواسطة eeww2000 - 11-08-2007, 02:07 PM,
هل هل كتب يوحنا قصة الزانية ؟ - بواسطة ayoop2 - 11-08-2007, 06:53 PM,
هل هل كتب يوحنا قصة الزانية ؟ - بواسطة ayoop2 - 11-10-2007, 12:40 AM,
هل هل كتب يوحنا قصة الزانية ؟ - بواسطة ayoop2 - 11-10-2007, 02:50 AM,
هل هل كتب يوحنا قصة الزانية ؟ - بواسطة ayoop2 - 11-10-2007, 11:43 PM,
هل هل كتب يوحنا قصة الزانية ؟ - بواسطة ayoop2 - 11-11-2007, 12:43 AM,
هل هل كتب يوحنا قصة الزانية ؟ - بواسطة ayoop2 - 11-11-2007, 12:45 AM,
هل هل كتب يوحنا قصة الزانية ؟ - بواسطة ayoop2 - 11-11-2007, 12:47 AM,
هل هل كتب يوحنا قصة الزانية ؟ - بواسطة ayoop2 - 11-11-2007, 01:33 AM,
هل هل كتب يوحنا قصة الزانية ؟ - بواسطة ayoop2 - 11-11-2007, 02:20 AM,
هل هل كتب يوحنا قصة الزانية ؟ - بواسطة ayoop2 - 11-11-2007, 02:54 AM,
هل هل كتب يوحنا قصة الزانية ؟ - بواسطة ayoop2 - 11-16-2007, 09:13 PM,
هل هل كتب يوحنا قصة الزانية ؟ - بواسطة Raheel - 12-08-2007, 04:35 PM,
هل هل كتب يوحنا قصة الزانية ؟ - بواسطة Raheel - 12-08-2007, 04:37 PM,
هل هل كتب يوحنا قصة الزانية ؟ - بواسطة Raheel - 12-08-2007, 05:03 PM,
هل هل كتب يوحنا قصة الزانية ؟ - بواسطة Raheel - 12-08-2007, 05:06 PM,
هل هل كتب يوحنا قصة الزانية ؟ - بواسطة Raheel - 12-08-2007, 05:49 PM,

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