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/global.php 958 eval
/showthread.php 28 require_once
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/global.php 961 eval
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Warning [2] Undefined property: MyLanguage::$bottomlinks_returncontent - Line: 6 - File: global.php(1070) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/showthread.php 673 build_forum_jump
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/inc/functions.php 3442 eval
/showthread.php 673 build_forum_jump
Warning [2] Undefined property: MyLanguage::$forumjump_select - Line: 5 - File: inc/functions.php(3442) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/inc/functions.php 3442 eval
/showthread.php 673 build_forum_jump
Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code 2 errorHandler->error_callback
/showthread.php 1690 eval
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/showthread.php 1690 eval
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/showthread.php 1690 eval
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/showthread.php 1690 eval
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/inc/class_error.php 153 errorHandler->error
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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نادي الفكر العربي / الســـــــــاحات الاختصاصيـــــة / الحوار الديني v / هل هل كتب يوحنا قصة الزانية ؟

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النظام الخطي
هل هل كتب يوحنا قصة الزانية ؟
العميد غير متصل
عضو رائد
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المشاركات: 934
الانضمام: Jul 2003
مشاركة: #122
هل هل كتب يوحنا قصة الزانية ؟
العزيز فانسي والإخوة والزملاء :

كتب الزميل فانسي يقول :
(( 1- عمل جيروم كان نقديا في المقام الاول , اخذ منه وقتا كبيرا
2- كان جيروم يحقق المخطوطات و يقارن مخطوطات العالم و يستدل بنسخ العلماء))

قلت : سواء كان نقديًا أم لم يكن ، فإن جيروم ليس معصومًا ويصيب ويخطأ ، والزميل أقر بذلك ، فإذن لا معنى بجعل عمل جيروم أو قوله حجة لا يأتيها الباطل من خلفها ولا من بين يديها.

ولو أن عمل جيروم النقدي حجة عند زميلنا فعليه أن يحذف ما قرره سابقًا في المداخلة رقم 39 من قبوله لسفر طوبيا ويهوديت والمكابين الأول والثاني وباروخ وسفر الحكمة ويشوع بن سيراخ والمزمور 151 أسفار قانونية ، إذ أن جيروم لم يضمنها في قوائم الأسفار القانونية .

ولا فرق بينك وبين من يقول لك (بروتستانتي مثلًا) إن الأسفار القانونية الثانية عندكم ليست من القانون في شيء ويستدل عليك بتحقيق جيروم وعمله النقدي .

ولا مجال للكيل بمكيالين هنا ، فإما عمل جيروم حجة فيقبل الزميل كل ما يقرره ، وإما ليس بحجة ، وعندها يسقط احتجاجه به.

وقل مثل ذلك على من يحتج عليك بقانونية الراعي لهرماس بتحقيق إيريناوس ، ورسالة برنابا بتحقيق اكلمندس الإسكندري وترتليانوس وغير ذلك كثير ، وكل ذلك لا تقبل أنت به في القانون ..

تقول :
(( 3- مسألة السند تناقش ( رغما عني ) في ( على هامش الحوار ) مع انها في جوهر حواري و الدليل ان العميد هنا يطالبني به مع انه غير محسوم في الاساس))

قلت : لا ألزمك بالسند ولا بغيره ، بل نقبل بأي طريقة تثبت من خلالها أن يوحنا كتب قصة الزانية.

تقول :
(( 2- هذه المخطوطة لو ما كانت اصل يوحنا ما كان لها ان تفرض قصة معينة ( الزانية ) عليها ما عليها ,في انجيل معين ( يوحنا ) , في مكان معين ( يو 7 ) و هو مكان منتقد من الزملاء)) .

أقول :
هذا كلام غريب جدًا!!
وما أسهل أن يقال لك : هذه المخطوطة ليست من أصل يوحنا، ومع ذلك لا مانع أن تفرض فيها قصة معينة في إنجيل معين ومكان معين.

وتقول:
(( لذا فالقوة التى تسمح بامرار قصة كتلك في نفس السفر في نفس المكان بكل ما عليهم من تحفظات , هي قوة الأصالة)) .

وأنا أسألك : لِمَ لا تكون قوة التحريف والتغيير والعبث في المخطوطات بدل قوة الأصالة؟

ثم إنّ هذه القوة التي تتحدث عنها لها مثيلها بنفس القوة التي جاءت فيها نفس القصة في بعض المخطوطات في نهاية إنجيل يوحنا ، ومثيلها في القوة التي جاءت فيها القصة بعد لو 21: 38 ، وكالتي جاءت في يوحنا بعد 7: 36 .

يقول الخوري بولس الفغالي (لم يكن هذا النصّ جزءاً من إنجيل يوحنا الأولاني: فأسلوبه وألفاظه أقرب إلى لوقا منه إلى يوحنا. وهناك مخطوطات تجعله بعد لو 21: 38. ومخطوطات يوحنا تتردّد فتجعله تارة بعد 7: 36 وطوراً في نهاية الإنجيل).

وقل مثله عن سفر الراعي لهرماس ، فهذا السفر يوجد في المخطوطة السينائية بالإضافة إلى ما قرره القمص تادرس ملطي من اعتراف ثلاثة من مشاهير علماء النصرانية به كسفر قانوني في القرون الأولى هم : إيريناوس واكلمندس الإسكندري وأوريجانوس (المدخل إلى علم الباترولوجي) ..
فهذا يمثل قوة لهذا السفر حسب منطقك ، لأنه مرّ في السينائية ومرّ على كل هؤلاء العظماء ، هذا إذا أضفنا أيضًا قبول الكنيسة الحبشية له .

فدعنا نستعير عبارتك ونقول:
لذا فالقوة التي تسمح بإمرار سفر كهذا وقبوله في القانون عند هؤلاء العظماء ووجوده في المخطوطة السينائية هي قوة الأصالة لهذا السفر ..
وطبعًا أنت حسب قائمتك التي وضعتها لا تقبل بهذا السفر في القانون وكذلك سائر الكنيسة الأرثوذكسية القبطية والكاثوليكية والبروتستانتية.

تحياتي
العميد
01-21-2008, 01:25 AM
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