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/global.php 958 eval
/showthread.php 28 require_once
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/global.php 961 eval
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/showthread.php 673 build_forum_jump
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/inc/functions.php 3442 eval
/showthread.php 673 build_forum_jump
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/inc/functions.php 3442 eval
/showthread.php 673 build_forum_jump
Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1686) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code 2 errorHandler->error_callback
/showthread.php 1690 eval
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/showthread.php 1690 eval
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/showthread.php 1690 eval
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/inc/class_error.php 153 errorHandler->error
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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انت تسال والمسيح يجيب عليك !!!!!!
عبد الرحمن ويصا غير متصل
عضو رائد
*****

المشاركات: 1,121
الانضمام: Jan 2005
مشاركة: #6
انت تسال والمسيح يجيب عليك !!!!!!
[SIZE=5]بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

اهلا ومرحبا بالصديق الفاضل اسحق والله لمن دواعى سرورى ان اشترك معك فى حوار واشكرك على ردك الكريم وسنتناول انا وانت ايضاحة للجميع باذن الله

1- علمتك حوارات النادي بعض صفاتها السيئة وقد يكون هذا قدرنا جميعا لذلك أوردت الآية ولم تكملها

عندك حق فى هذا سيد اسحق فاسلوبى تغير بعض الشىء ولكن باذن الله سنكون من الصابرين ولكن عن ااننى ائتى باية ولا اكملها فهذا لان اكمالها لن يزيد او يقل فى المراد وصولة فحضرتك ذكرت
ـــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــ
يكفي التلميذ أن يكون كمعلمه والعبد كسيده " ( مت 10 : 25 )يتضح مما سبق أن الرسول يمكن أن يكون كالراسل وهذا ما نقوله ولم نقل أن الرسول أعظم من الراسل اطلاقا
ــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــ0

الاترى ان هذا تناقض واضح جدا فشطر العدد الاول يقول انة اعظم من سيدة فانى ارى ان بقية العدد يشبة ان المعلم ممكن ان يكون كالسيد اما فى الشق الاول فهو شبة جزم من المسيح ان الراسل اعظم من المرسل

ـــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــ

2-بنوتنا نحن لله تختلف عن بنوة السيد المسيح له فنحن أبناء الله بالتبني ولكن بنوة المسيح وحيدة الجنس وفريدة من نوعها ـــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــ

ممكن توضحها اكتر اسحق
ـــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــ

3- الاقتباس الذي أوردته هو كلام الجمع أولا لا كلام السيد المسيح وثانيا أن النبي وظيفة ضمن وظائف السيد المسيح فالجمع لم يخطئ ولكنه لم يدرك كافة أبعاد شخصية المسيح0
ـــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــ

النبى وظيفة من وظائف المسيح ؟؟؟ اقال المسيح هذا ام انة استنتاج شخصى من وجهة نظرك الخاصة
ـــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــ

"صدقوني إني في الآب والآب ـــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــ

سيدى الفاضل لقد اخطئت باستخدامك هذا النص لتثبت الوهية المسيح وتساوية للاب وهذا لعدة اسباب

اولا المسيح قال ( ابى اعظم منى ) وقال ايضا كل شىء دفع الى من الاب والابن لا يقدر ان يفعل شىء من نفسة ) اذن سقط ادعائك بتساوى الاب والابن

ثانيا ناتى لنصك انا فى الاب والاب فى وهو من اشداستدلالكم على ان المسيح قال انة هو الله
فان عممنا هذا علينا فبذلك جميعنا فى الله والله فينا جميعا بحكم هذا النص

( إن أحب بعضنا بعضاً فالله يثبت فيه ، ومحبته قد تكلمت فينا ، بهذا نعرف أننا نثبت فيه وهو فينا )

اذن لا يصح الاستدلال بهذا النص للمرة الثانية لانة ليس دليل على ان الله والمسيح واحد

ــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــ

4- 5- الامتياز الذي منحه لنا السيد المسيح لا يعطينا علي الاطلاق حق المساواة به لاختلاف الطبيعه والكينونة0ــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــ

سيدى الفاضل لا يوجد اختلاف بين طبيعتنا وكينونتنا وبين طبيعة المسيح وكينونتة مثلنا المسيح مثلا ولد بلا اب ادم ولد بلا اب وام ايضا اهذا يجعلنا نعبدة

كينونتة هو انسان كان طفل وشب ولدا ثم كان رجلا وهذا يحدث معنا جميعا فما الاختلاف ؟؟ الاختلاف معك انت سيدى اسحق لانك تؤمن بانة الة وابن الة وكلمة الة وهذا كلة ليس لة دعم فى الكتاب المقدس بلا هو ايمان بلا بصيرة سيد اسحق

ـــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــ

6- عندما تقل علي سبيل المثال ( لقد تغلبت علي نفسي في هذا الأمر ) فهل أنت هنا منقسم علي ذاتك ؟
من تغلب علي من ؟

ـــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــ

هذا مثال بعيد اسحق السيد المسيح قال اشكرك ايها الاب وكلمة ( ايها ) ( للبعيد ) فلا يعقل ان افعل شىء واقول اشكرك ايها عبد الرحمن

ثانيا لقد اغفلت النظر فى العدد الذى يلية وهو فعل المسيح للمعجزة ولكن قبل ان يفعلها نظر للسماء كما انة كان يصلى وحيدا افكان يصلى لنفسة العقل يرفض هذا نهائيا سيد اسحق

ــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــ
7- السيد المسيح هنا يتحدث بحسب الناسوت0ــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــ

ناسوت ؟؟؟ اوقال السيد المسيح انة ناسوت ولاهوت من فضلك دعم كلامك بنص واحد
ــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــ
8- في هذه الفقرة يرتقي السيد المسيح بفكر الشخص تدريجيا بمعني أنه طالما تناديني بالمعلم الصالح وليس صالحا إلا الله فماذا أكون أنا ؟ـــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــ

هذا رئيك اسحق وصدقنى دة ثالث رئى يصلنى فى هذا النص وكل رئى عكس الاخر وهذا ما يزيدنى يقينا ان قول المسيح لهذا الشخص ( ولما تدعونى صالحا فليس صالح الا الله) هو نهى واستنكار لهذا الشخص لانة وصفة باللهــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــ

كان السيد المسيح يطلق علي نفسه " ابن الإنسان " ولكن عندما قال له رئيس الكهنة بالمحاكمة " استحلفك بالله الحي أن تقول لنا هل أنت المسيح ابن الله0 قال له يسوع أنت قلت 0 وأيضا أقول لك من الآن 0000" ( مت 26 : 63 - 64 ــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــــ


اهذا نص يقول فية المسيح انا الله
ودعنا نؤيد رئيك سيد اسحق فلما لم يكون النص استحلفك بنفسك اانت الله لما قال لة استحلفك بالله اما عن لفظ ابن الله فهو مجاز كما ذكرت لى من قبل اسحق ولك فائق احترامى

عبد الرحمن ويصا
02-14-2005, 04:22 AM
زيارة موقع العضو عرض جميع مشاركات هذا العضو إقتباس هذه الرسالة في الرد
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الردود في هذا الموضوع
انت تسال والمسيح يجيب عليك !!!!!! - بواسطة عبد الرحمن ويصا - 02-14-2005, 04:22 AM

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