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/global.php 958 eval
/showthread.php 28 require_once
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/global.php 961 eval
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Warning [2] Undefined property: MyLanguage::$bottomlinks_returncontent - Line: 6 - File: global.php(1070) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/showthread.php 673 build_forum_jump
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/inc/functions.php 3442 eval
/showthread.php 673 build_forum_jump
Warning [2] Undefined property: MyLanguage::$forumjump_select - Line: 5 - File: inc/functions.php(3442) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/inc/functions.php 3442 eval
/showthread.php 673 build_forum_jump
Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code 2 errorHandler->error_callback
/showthread.php 1690 eval
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/showthread.php 1690 eval
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/showthread.php 1690 eval
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/showthread.php 1690 eval
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/inc/class_error.php 153 errorHandler->error
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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تقييم الموضوع:
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لقاء وحوار مع زعيم المنتدى (الزعيم رقم صفر)
الزعيم رقم صفر غير متصل
الميت أصلا
*****

المشاركات: 4,354
الانضمام: Dec 2004
مشاركة: #240
لقاء وحوار مع زعيم المنتدى (الزعيم رقم صفر)
اقتباس:[quote name='عاشق الكلمه' date='Oct 4 2008, 08:26 PM' post='513733']
1- الرسول رجم اليهود استنادا الى التوراه , والقصه اشهر من ان ارفق نصها .

2- استناد الرسول الى التوراه فى رجم اليهود يعنى انها شريعه الهيه , وهى تسرى على كل البشر طالما انه ليس هناك ما ينسخها , تماما كما نقول ان الاديان السماويه نسختها رساله الاسلام .

3- بما ان الرسول عمل بحكم توراتى فمعنى ذلك ان هذا الحكم من التوراه حكم صحيح , ولو انه ليس صحيحا لعلم الرسول ذلك , وقصه وضع اليهودى يده على ايه الرجم حتى لا يقراها امام الرسول ويتم تنفيذ الحد وقال له الحاضرون ارفع يدك وقراو الايه يعنى انهم كانوا لا يريدون الاستناد الى التوراه الصحيحه .

4- وهل عندما يقول القران ان التوراه او الانجيل محرفين فيعنى ذلك انه ليس فيهم حرفا واحدا صحيحا ؟؟
[/quote]

إن أرفقت قصة رجم الرسول لليهود فلن تحتج بها مرة اخرى

و حتى ترفقها فهى ليست حجه و لا شئ لان البينه على من ادعى و انت الذى تدعى و تنكر حد متواتر فعليك بالحجه لا بالمراسيل بقولك مشهوره و معروفه طب انا اعرفها و انت تعرفها فماذا عن القارئ اللى لا يعرفها

و اكرر

لو وضعت نص القصه سينتهى احتجاججك بها

و لما القران يقول ان التواره و الانجيل محرفين يبقى الاولى ان نبتعد عنهم لا ان تحتج بيهم و ان اردت الاحتجاج فعليك اثبات انك تحتج بالنص الصحيح المنزل من الله

و هل يحتج رسول الله بكتاب منقطع الاسناد ؟

هل يحتج رسول الله بكتاب يعلم ان اصحابه هم من كتبوه ؟

هل يحتج رسول الله بكتاب لا يعرف من هم رواته و لا اصحابه عمره ثلاثة الاف عام ؟
اقتباس:[quote name='عاشق الكلمه' date='Oct 4 2008, 08:26 PM' post='513733']

انا مبقولش حاجه من عند امى , انا بقول اللى حصل واللى موجود فى الكتب .
هل رجم الرسول يهودا استنادا الى شريعتهم ام لا ؟؟ وماذا يعنى لك انت ذلك ؟؟ وكيف تفسره ؟
[/quote]

انا لا أعلم ما هو دخل السيده المحترمه أمك فى الموضوع ...ربما عندك مبرر لذكرها فى معرض ردك و انتظر منك التوضيح ...........(1)

رجم الرسول اليهود استنادا الى شريعتهم ....نعم ...صحيح ...............(2)

يعنى ان لكل قوم شرعة و منهاجا ...........................................(3)

و افسره بان من يلزم نفسه بشريعه تطبق عليه ........................(4)
اقتباس:[quote name='عاشق الكلمه' date='Oct 4 2008, 08:26 PM' post='513733']

اعتبرنى متافقا مرتدا عن دين الاسلام ومتظاهرا به خشيه قطع رقبتى بحد الرده :)

الاسلام دين يدعو الى التفكر واستخدام العقل , وخصوصا فى مثل تلك الاشياء اللتى لم ياتى بها نص قرانى صريح.
[/quote]

يا اخى الحبيب حشا لله ان نكفر من نطق الشهادتين فانت مسلم و على راسى و إن إختلفنا

و طالما تظهر الاسلام و تقول انك مسلم يبقى انت مسلم و يقطع لسان من يقول غير هذا

بل انت مسلم و موحد بالله و لست ملحدا و لا يحزنون حرام عليك تقول كده

و انا لن افترض شئ حتى تصرح به علانيه

و هل التفكير و العقل خاص بالملحدين ؟

و هل انا اتكلم معك بغير العقل ؟

و هل الفعل النبوى الصريح المتواتر لا يعتبر تشريعا ؟
اقتباس:[quote name='عاشق الكلمه' date='Oct 4 2008, 08:26 PM' post='513733']
يجب ان تعلم ان الرجم لم ينعقد عليه إجماع المسلمين في الماضي، بل أنكره المعتزلة والخوارج، وتشكك بعض الصحابة كما يروي البخاري فيما إن كان تم تطبيق الرجم في العهد النبوي قبل نزول آية الجلد فيكون منسوخا بها، أم أن التطبيق النبوي استمر بعد نزول هذه الآية:
[/quote]
ها انت قلت خوارج ......ما معنى خوارج ...؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟

و معتزله ...... ما معنى معتزله .................؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟

بالنسبه للتشكك و فى اى شئ يظهر فى القتباس التالى

اقتباس:[quote name='عاشق الكلمه' date='Oct 4 2008, 08:26 PM' post='513733']


"‏حدثني ‏ ‏إسحاق ‏ ‏حدثنا ‏ ‏خالد ‏ ‏عن ‏ ‏الشيباني ‏ ‏سألت ‏ ‏عبد الله بن أبي أوفى ‏
‏هل رجم رسول الله ‏ ‏صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ ‏قال نعم قلت قبل سورة النور أم بعد قال لا أدري ‏"
صحيح البخارى - باب الحدود - رجم المحصن .
[/quote]

اه شك فى التوقيت و لكن هل نفس الرواى تشكك فى صحة الرجم بعد الرسول ؟ هل ورد اليك من اقوال خالد الشيبانى او عبد الله بن ابى اوفى انه قال ان الرجم منسوخ ؟
اقتباس:[quote name='عاشق الكلمه' date='Oct 4 2008, 08:26 PM' post='513733']


وأثار عدد من العلماء المعاصرين إشكالات فقهية جدية حول أصالة حد الرجم في الإسلام، منهم الشيخ محمد أبو زهرة الذي يعتبره دخيلا على الإسلام، والشيخ القرضاوي الذي يفتح الباب لاجتهاد الحاكم في وقف تنفيذه , واقرا هذا الرابط واللذى يحوى جزء من مذكرات الشيخ يوسف القرضاوى وهو يتطرق الى تلك النقطه تحت عنوان ابو زهره يفجر قنبله :

http://www.justice4libya.com
/index.php?opt...&Itemid=192

وأغلب أحاديث الرجم لا تخلو من مغمز وعلة في السند أو المتن أو كليهما,
[/quote][/quote]

إثبت كلامك ان اغلبية احاديث الرجم لا تخلو من مغمز و عله

يعنى عليك بجميع احاديث الرجم و عدها ثم اثبت ان اكثر من نصفها لا يخلو من الهمز و العلل................(1)


و تقول اغلبها يبقى الباقيه صحيحه و لا غمز و لا عله و نستند اليها ................... ........................(2)

القرضاوى لم يفتح الباب لان الباب مفتوح اصلا و فقهيا ان الحاكم عليه التانى فى تطبيق الحد و الاخذ بالشبهات فى صالح عدم تطبيق الحد الامر قديم اصلا و يستند الى رسول الله و ليس جديد ....(3)

ابو زهره تكلم و رد عليه العلماء ................(4)

بالمناسبه فان ابو زهره هذا متكبر و لا اعتقد انه يجوز الاخذ بكلام من ثبتت عليه صفة الكبر .......(5)

:)
اقتباس:[quote name='عاشق الكلمه' date='Oct 4 2008, 08:26 PM' post='513733']

وأمر عمر برجم امرأة مجنونة (البخاري)
[/quote]
أحقا ...؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟

طيب انت ملتزم بارفاق روايه من البخارى فيها ان عمر يامر برجم إمرأه مجنونه ....................!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
اقتباس:[quote name='عاشق الكلمه' date='Oct 4 2008, 08:26 PM' post='513733']
انا لم احتج بالشافعى فى انه انكر حد الرجم , انا احتج بقول الشافعى فى رايى عام يصلح للقياس به فى كل الامور المتع
3fe0
[/quote]
طيب يا حبيبى

انا اعلم فى اى الامر تحتج بالشافعى و قد تكرر بحيث لا انسى فيم تحتج به

و انت تستند الى رايه فى امر ما فتتعدى مرحلة قبوله الى مرحلة الإقتناع و الاستناد

و حيث ان حضرتك تقبل برأى الشافعى و تسند اليه فانا اقبل به ايضا و استند الى من تستند اليه و اعيد عليك ان الشافعى رحمه الله افتى برجم المحصن الزانى

و ما استنادى الى الشافعى إلا بعدما اظهرت القبول و الاستناد الى رايه

و لا انت بقى هاتفصل الكلام و الحجج حته على مزاجك تبقى ماشيه و حته مش على مزاجك تبقى نرميها ؟ :teeth_smile:
اقتباس:[quote name='عاشق الكلمه' date='Oct 4 2008, 08:26 PM' post='513733']

لقه بالاسلام , وهو انه لا يتعين الاحتجاج بفعل الصحابه حيث انهم كانوا يخالفون بعضهم بعضا , وليس احدا منهم اولى من الاخر بالاتباع , ولذلك يتعين البطلان فى الاحتجاج بفعل احدهم .
لن ااتيك بالمصدر , ابحث عنه بنفسك حتى تقرا كثيرا وانت تبحث , كما يجب ان تعلم ايضا ان هذا كلام لا يحتاج الى مصدر , فحتى لو لم يقله الشافعى , هذا الخلاف بينهم فى الاراء ووجهات النظر حدث بالفعل , ولو لم يحدث لما كانت هناك حروب وفتن بعد وفاه الرسول صلى الله عليه وسلم , وكلهم كانوا صحابه .
[/quote]

لا تحتج حتى تأتى بالمصدر ...البينه على من ادعى و انت من تنكر حد الرجم و ليس انا

و انت من قال ان الشافعى قال كذا و كذا

و لو كنت حقا و حقيقة مقتنع و عندك ادله يبقى لماذا لا ترفق المصدر

الكلام بدون مصدر اسمه كلام مرسل و المرسل لا حجه له ايا كان من ينسب اليه و ايا كان راويه ...عارف دى و لا كمان مش عارفها ؟؟؟؟؟ :)
اقتباس:[quote name='عاشق الكلمه' date='Oct 4 2008, 08:26 PM' post='513733']

كسيدنا عمر الذى رجم امراه مجنونه فى حين انه ليس على المجنون حرج ؟؟
فهل تصدق ان سيدنا عمر يرجم امراه مجنونه ؟؟
[/quote]

لا أصدق .......:no2:

و هل انت تصدق ؟ :what:

و بينى و بينك الحجه الصحيحه ان سيدنا عمر رجم مجنونه ....لينتهى كل شئ اما انك مقتنع و تستند الى ادله فى كلامك و يسقط الاحتجاج بالصحابه او انك تتبع الهوى و لا تراعى الدقه

و انا فى إنتظار حجه صحيحه ان سيدنا عمر قد رجم مجنونه ........... :closedeyes:
اقتباس:[quote name='عاشق الكلمه' date='Oct 4 2008, 08:26 PM' post='513733']
اى سابقون تقصدهم ؟؟

من جاؤوا بعد الرسول صلى الله عليه وسلم بمائه عام فقط فهم مثلى ومثلك , لم يروا شيئا , وانما استنبطوا احكاما مما وصلهم من اخبار , كمثل العلماء المعاصرين اليوم تماما .

اما ان كنت تقصد بالسابقون " الصحابه " فكم مره تم تطبيق حد الرجم فى عهد الصحابه والخلفاء ؟؟ ومن ادراك ان جميع الصحابه كانوا متفقين مع الصحابى او الخليفه اللذى طبق حد الرجم؟؟
[/quote]

السابقون هم الصحابه و من تلاهم

و الثابت انهم رجموا دون خلاف بينهم

و الا فعليك بدليل ان هناك خلاف

اقتباس:[quote name='عاشق الكلمه' date='Oct 4 2008, 08:26 PM' post='513733']
خلاصه القول :

انا اؤمن ان حد الرجم منسوخ بالقران
فليس معنى ان الرسول مارسه انه حكم باقى , الباقى الى ابد الابدين هو القران الكريم , والقران نسخ هذا الحكم بايه الجلد .
[/quote]

طيب

الثابت ان رسول الله قد رجم .....فهل نهى الناس عن الرجم ..؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟

الثابت ان صحابة رسول الله رجموا بعد وفاته ...............هل عندك دليل انهم تختلفوا فيما بينهم على شرعية حد الرجم ..؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟

كما انه و من الاثر ان رسول الله فى موقف ما قد حكم بالجلد و حكم بالرجم فى نفس الجلسه يبقى الجلد لم ينسخ الرجم كما تقول


اقتباس:[quote name='عاشق الكلمه' date='Oct 4 2008, 08:26 PM' post='513733']

وهل حد الرجم اللذى تؤمن به هو ما سيعيد البيت كما كان ؟؟

البيت اتخرب وخلاص سواء تم رجمها ام تم جلدها ام لم تنل اى عقوبه على الاطلاق .
[/quote]

أولا ايمانى بحد الرجم ليس ايمان خاص بل هو ايمان اجمع عليه الفقهاء و هو متواتر

ثانيا : و هل جلد شارب الخمر سيعيد ما شربه من خمر و هل قطع يد السارق ستعيد ما سرقه و هل قطع رقبة القاتل سوف يحيى من قتل ؟

فالخمر تم شربها سواء تم الجلد ام لا و السارق سرق سواء تم قطع يده ام لا و القتيل قد قتل سواء تم قتل القاتل ام لا

نلغى الحدود كلها لانها لن تحى الموتى ؟

و ان كان الحد لم يردعها فزنت يبقى نرجمها فترتدع غيرها

منطق متهافت جدا :)
(تم إجراء آخر تعديل على هذه المشاركة: 10-06-2008, 06:51 PM بواسطة الزعيم رقم صفر.)
10-06-2008, 06:42 PM
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لقاء وحوار مع زعيم المنتدى (الزعيم رقم صفر) - بواسطة الزعيم رقم صفر - 10-06-2008, 06:42 PM

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