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/global.php 958 eval
/showthread.php 28 require_once
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/global.php 961 eval
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Warning [2] Undefined property: MyLanguage::$bottomlinks_returncontent - Line: 6 - File: global.php(1070) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/showthread.php 673 build_forum_jump
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/inc/functions.php 3442 eval
/showthread.php 673 build_forum_jump
Warning [2] Undefined property: MyLanguage::$forumjump_select - Line: 5 - File: inc/functions.php(3442) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/inc/functions.php 3442 eval
/showthread.php 673 build_forum_jump
Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code 2 errorHandler->error_callback
/showthread.php 1690 eval
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/showthread.php 1690 eval
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/showthread.php 1690 eval
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/showthread.php 1690 eval
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/inc/class_error.php 153 errorHandler->error
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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{myadvertisements[zone_1]}
انت تسال والمسيح يجيب عليك !!!!!!
الزعيم رقم صفر غير متصل
الميت أصلا
*****

المشاركات: 4,354
الانضمام: Dec 2004
مشاركة: #113
انت تسال والمسيح يجيب عليك !!!!!!
اقتباس: ABDELMESSIH67 كتب/كتبت
عزيزي فري مايند , الأخوة و الأصدقاء الأعزاء
بسم الله و الصلاة و السلام على الرسول الكريم

ردا على مداخلة عبد المسيح رقم 104

ملحوظه
قام عبد المسيح فى بداية الموضوع بالرد على الاخ عبد الرحمن فى ثلاث مداخلات فقمت بالرد عليه فى ثلاث ايضا

فقام عبد المسيح لابرد فى فى سبع مداخلات

فرددت انا عليه فى سبع مداخلات بعدد مداخلاته

و الان يرد على السبعه فى مداخله واحده

فأين الرد على باقى النقاط التىلم ترد عليها يا عبد المسيح ؟


[QUOTE]لأن كافة ما أقدمه لك هو من آيات الكتاب المقدس التي أستند عليها مجمع نيقية
ولكنكم تتبعون مبدأ ( حاوريني يا كيكا ) عندما نقدم لكم آيات الكتاب المقدس ترفضونها
و تتهمون الكتاب بالتحريف و عندما نعرض لكم قانون الأيمان النيقاوي , تقولون نحن نناقش
الكتاب المقدس و كلام السيد المسيح .
يعني ببساطة , العقول مغلقة و كذلك الفهم و لا يوجد أي رغبة في الحوار و التفهم للغير
بل هو رفض مستمر دون فهم .

و لهذا لكي أكون فد أكملت واجبي نحوك و نحو أخواننا القراء سأرد عليك بمنتهى الأختصار
من أجل كافة المتابعين للحوار .

يا عبد المسيح

انت كنت تستشهد بقانون الايمان و قلت ان من بدعوه هم بتوع مجمع نقيه

و نحن نناقش الكتاب و ليس مجمع نقيه فلا تقحم ما ليس لنا علاقه به

و الاهم من ذلك

من فضلك اعمل اقتباس من اى من ردودى عليك فى اى مداخله قلت لك فيها الكتاب محرف

فانا ما زلت اتعامل مع كتابك كما تؤمن به انت و ليس كما اومن به انا



اقتباس:أقتباس :
---------------------------------
الولاده غير الانبثاق
فهل هو منبثق ام مولود ؟
--------------------------------
كلام غير سليم الولادة هي الأنبثاق .

بل كلامك انت الغير سليم يا عبد المسيح

لان الانبثاق هو عباره عن تغير شكل نفس الماده دون انفصال مع البروز و القدره على التحديد

اما الولاده فهى تشكل كائن اخر و انفاصاله عن الاصلى ليصبحا كائنين منفصلين لكل منهما طبيعته


اقتباس:أقتباس :
--------------------------------
بل توجد حراره بدون نار
الا تعلم ان الاحتكاك ينتج حراره تفوق حراره الاحتراق
-------------------------------

أنا مثالي كان محدد عن( النار ) فقط : هل توجد نار لا تشع حرارة ؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟
مرة أخرى أسلوب ( حاوريني يا كيكا ) .

عوده الى التدليس

يا عبد المسيح

اقتبس كلامك من مداخله رقم 36 فى نفس الموضوع

فانت قلت الاتى ( لأن الحرارة و النار لا ينفصلان بل متلازمان كذلك الآب و الابن لا ينفصلان بل هو
كيان واحد أزلي أبدي .
)


انت جعلت الحراره و النار متلازمان

فى حيان انهما متلازمان فى حالات و اخرى لا فلا تصبح قاعده و لا يصلح المثل لانك لو شبهت الابن بالحراره و الاب بالنار فيمكن ان يوجد ابن بدون اب و لا يمكن ان يستغنى الاب عن الاب كى يصبح اله

و هذا مستحيل

فتطيح بمثلك بعيدا


اقتباس:أقتباس :
-----------------------------
انت ذكرت فى مداخله سابقه ان الله ارسل المسيح ارسالا داخلى
فسألتك و هل الله قال لك هذا ؟
فتضع لى نصوصا لا علاقه لها بالسؤال و قد حذفت النصوص منعا للاطاله
-------------------------------

لو قرأت بفهم ( و هذا ما أشك فيه ) تجد أن الله يتكلم عن أرسال كائن
ما ( أزلي ) , هل يوجد كائن أزلي سوى الله نفسه . ؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟

اولا لا يوجد ازلى الا الله سبحانه و تعالى

و لا تخلط المواضيع

فانت قلت ارسال داخلى

من اين لك بتعبير ارسال داخلى ؟



اقتباس:أقتباس :
-------------------------------------
و هل رايت الله لتحكم انه من الممكن تشبيهه بالهواء
-------------------------------------
الله لا يراه أحد قط لأنه غير محدود و لكن الابن الأزلي الذي نقل الله لنا هو الذي
أوضح ذلك المثال .

هل الابن اوضح ان ذات الله يصلح تشبيهها بالهواء ؟

اقتباس:أقتباس :
----------------------------------
و هل انت واثق تماما من صحة تشبيك الله بالهواء ؟
---------------------------------
نعم .

اذا كنت واثق فان الهواء قابل للانضغاط و تقليص الحجم حتى يصبح سائلا

فهل الله قابل للانضغاط و هل حجمه قابل للتقلص ؟:
confused:

اقتباس:أقتباس :
---------------------------------
و عندما تشبهه الله بالهواء فمن واجبك ان تقوم بتطبيق باقى خواص الهواء عليه
---------------------------------
لا , لأن الله لا شبيه له و كافة الأمثلة ما هي ألا ( تقريبية ) لكنها لا يمكن أن تنقل لنا
ما هو اللاهوت بطريقة كاملة .

تقريبيه يعنى غير دقيقه يعنى بها نسبة خطأ ...فما هو معيار هذا التقريب و ما قدر تأثير عدم الدقه على الموضوع الاصلى و هو ذات الله ؟
اقتباس:أقتباس :
-------------------------------------
و هل اللاهوت يملئ مجارى الفضلات ؟ و هل اللهوت يملئ الفراغات الموجوده فى داخل الفضلات نفسها ؟
--------------------------------------
رغم سذاجة و سخافة سؤالك و أسلوبك لكن الأجابة : نعم

لأن الله فوق المادة و لا يتأثر بها .

لو قلنا حسب فهمك الخاطئ أن الله في السماء فقط يصبح محدود و كل محدود
حادث , تعالى الله عما تصفون .

يا حلاوه :duh:

عبد المسيح يقول ان الله يملئ الفضلات ثم يقول لى انى افهم خطا و يصفنى بالسذاجه و السخافه

طيب حسنا

معنى هذا انك يقرف تقترب من الله و تقرف انك تلمسه و تقرف انك تحطه على وشك

ام انك لا تقرف من الفضلات الادميه ؟



اقتباس:أقتباس :
--------------------------------------
يعنى انت تعبد ما لا شكل له
--------------------------------------
طبعا لأنه غير محدود .

اولا : هل الله يعجز ان يكون غير محدود و يكون له شكل فى نفس الوقت ؟

ثانيا : انت المخلوق لك شكلا و لك ملامح فيها نوع من الجمال

و خالقك الذى تؤمن به ليس له شكل و بالتالى يفتقد جمال الشكل

فلا تثريب انك تعبد المسيح الانسان لان له شكل و خالقك ليس له شكل:9:

اقتباس:أقتباس :
-------------------------------------
يعنى تعبد شئ هلامى
-------------------------------------
لا تعليق .

قول نعم مثل الرد السابق لان الشكل الهلامى هو الغير محدد المعالم

اقتباس:أقتباس :
------------------------------------
عبد المسيح يعبد اله لا شكل له
------------------------------------
يا حلاوتك , تكسب 75 قرش .

ايدك عليهم يا حلو :P

اقتباس:أقتباس :
-------------------------
و محاولتك فى الربط بين التاثير و الذات هو ما يسمى تدليسا
--------------------------
و كيف يحدث التأثير بدون وجود الذات يا ناصح .

يوجد كثيرا من الذوات المختلفه و التى تتفق فى التأثير

فمثلا الغاز يشتعل منتجا لهب و حراره

و البنزين يشتعل منتجا لهب و حراره

و السياره تجرى بسرعة مائة كيلو متر فى الساعه و الفهد الصياد يجرى بنفس السرعه

هذا بالرغم من اختلاف الذوات





اقتباس:أقتباس :
------------------------------------------
اى شئ له داخل لابد و ان له خارج او انك تستخدم تعبيرات و الفاظ لا معنى لها
-------------------------------------------
ما عدا الله لأنه غير محدود .

الغير محدود ليس له داخل لانك لو استطعت تحديد داخله و لو للحظه فستحدد خارج فى نفس اللحظه
اقتباس:أقتباس :
------------------------------------------
تقول داخل الاب يبقى يوجد خارج الاب لتستطيع تحديد الداخل
------------------------------------------
أنا شرحت لك قبل هذا أن داخل الآب : تفيد اتحاد الذات و الجوهر .

داخل لا علاقه لها بالاتحاد

فالام تحتوى المولود و هما ليسا متحدين لا فى الجوهر و لا فى الذات

و ما معنى الجوهر


اقتباس:أقتباس :
-------------------------------------------
او انه تتكلم عن شئ وهمى هلامى مثل قولك ان الله لا شكل له
-------------------------------------------
يا سيدي الفاضل أفهمني , كيف يكون هناك شكل لذات غير محدودة
الحدود هي التي تضع الشكل و الله غير محدود و بالتالي لا شكل له .
الموضوع بسيط جدا لو فكرت فيه .

الموضوع ليس بسيطا ربما على لسانك بسيط لانك لو تعبد شيئا هلاميا غيد محدد يبقى انت تعبد كذبه

و الله قادر ان يكون غير محدود و فى نفس الوقت له شكلا




اقتباس:أقتباس :
--------------------------------------
ة لذلك فان تعبير ابنه الوحيد ينفى البنوه عن الباقين و هذا تناقض
--------------------------------------
لا لا ينفي لأنه الأبن الوحيد بالطبيعة أي من نفس الذات .


لو هو ابن وحيد باى شكل فان كلمة بكرا تصبح غير ذات معنى

لان بكرا تفيد وجود اخوه

فاما انه وحيدا و فى هذه الحاله كلمة بكر ليست ذات معنى

او انه بكرا و فى هذه الحاله ليس وحيدا


اقتباس:أقتباس :
--------------------------------------
و لما هم اعترفوا به اله طيب قتلوه ليه ؟
---------------------------------------
الذين أعترفوا به تلاميذه و هم لم يقتلوه .

يبقى هو مكنش عاوز حد يعرفه الا التلاميذ

يبقى الباقين ليس لهم ذنب لان الاله بتاعهم كان يخفى نفسه عنهم و يفصح عنها للتلاميذ

يبقى اليهود لهم حق يقتلوه

و نحن لنا حق لا نؤمن لانه لم يفصح لنا مثما افصح للتلاميذ


[CENTER]ارجو من الساده القراء

مراجعة المداخلات 36 حتى 42 لعبد المسيح

و المداخلات ارقام من 48 حتى 54 ردا على عبد المسيح

لتوضيح مدى التغير فى كلامه كلما طال النقاش

و مراجعة مداخلات ارقام 25 و 26 و 27 ردا عليه
02-23-2005, 07:01 PM
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الردود في هذا الموضوع
انت تسال والمسيح يجيب عليك !!!!!! - بواسطة الزعيم رقم صفر - 02-23-2005, 07:01 PM

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