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/global.php 958 eval
/showthread.php 28 require_once
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/global.php 961 eval
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/showthread.php 673 build_forum_jump
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/inc/functions.php 3442 eval
/showthread.php 673 build_forum_jump
Warning [2] Undefined property: MyLanguage::$forumjump_select - Line: 5 - File: inc/functions.php(3442) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/showthread.php 673 build_forum_jump
Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code 2 errorHandler->error_callback
/showthread.php 1690 eval
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/showthread.php 1690 eval
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/showthread.php 1690 eval
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/inc/class_error.php 153 errorHandler->error
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1686) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/inc/class_plugins.php 142 thankyoulike_postbit
/inc/functions_post.php 898 pluginSystem->run_hooks
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/inc/class_plugins.php 142 thankyoulike_postbit
/inc/functions_post.php 898 pluginSystem->run_hooks
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/inc/class_plugins.php 142 thankyoulike_postbit
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ادعوكم احبائى اسحق والسريانى وفادى لسؤال فما ردكم ؟؟؟
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المشاركات: 826
الانضمام: Dec 2003
مشاركة: #26
ادعوكم احبائى اسحق والسريانى وفادى لسؤال فما ردكم ؟؟؟
السيد عبد الرحمن

تقول :

أمامنا استنتاجين، أن الله لم يتعهد بحفظ الكتاب المقدس ، أو أن الذي كتب التحذير كتبه من نفسه دون وحي من الله و بهذا يكون التحريف و الاضافة قد حدثا ، فلو أن الله تعهد بحفظ الكتاب المقدس فان التحذير هنا لا مبرر له

اقول :

الاستنتاج الاول خاطىء للتالي :

كلام الله هو كلام موجه الى اجيال كثيرة ...

فالله اعطى كلامه ليس لجيل واحد وانما لمئات وآلاف الاجيال ...

اذكروا الى الابد عهده . الكلمة التي اوصى بها الى الف جيل .( 1 اخبار 16 : 15 )

وليس من المعقول والمنطقي ان يسمح الله بتحريف كلامه ويترك البشرية عشرات القرون تسير في ضلال الى الهلاك الابدي ...

نعلم ونؤمن بان الخلاص الابدي للانسان يكمن في معرفته لله ، ومعرفة الله تأتي بواسطة كلامه الموحى به ، فأن حرف هذا الكلام وفسد ، فأن الامر سينتهي بالانسان الى الهلاك لامحالة ...فهل يسمح الله بهذا ؟

عندما اعطى الله وصاياه وشرائعه للشعب العبري قديما ، قال لهم :

"احفظ واسمع جميع هذه الكلمات التي انا اوصيك بها لكي يكون لك ولاولادك من بعدك خير"

كلام الله هو ليس للآباء فقط وانما للاولاد ايضا ...

فكيف يسمح الله للآباء بتحريف كلمته ويقود الاولاد بالتالي الى الهلاك ؟؟؟

وكلام الله هو ايضا الى ازمنة بعيدة ، ازمنة النهاية ...

"يا ابن آدم هوذا بيت اسرائيل قائلون الرؤيا التي هو رائيها هي الى ايام كثيرة وهو متنبئ لازمنة بعيدة " ( حزقيال 12 : 24 – 27 )


"اما انت يادانيال فأخف الكلام واختم السفر الى وقت النهاية . كثيرون يتفحصونه والمعرفة تزداد"
( دانيال 12:4)

اين هي نبؤات الازمنة البعيدة ، او نبؤات ازمنة النهاية ؟ هل تعتقد بانها حرفت او اختفت ؟ واذا كانت قد حرفت او اختفت لماذا اعطاها الله اذا ؟ ولماذا لم يوحي الله بها من جديد لعبيده انبياء بني اسرائيل ؟


وكلامه ووصاياه ثابتة مدى الدهر والابد ...

"‎اعمال يديه امانة وحق . كل وصاياه امينة 8 ثابتة مدى الدهر والابد مصنوعة بالحق والاستقامة‎" ( مزمور 111)

"منذ زمان عرفت من شهاداتك انك الى الدهر اسستها" ( مز 119 : 152 )

"رأس كلامك حق والى الدهر كل احكام عدلك" ( مز 119: 160 )

والاستنتاج الثاني ايضا باطل للتالي :

الوحي وطرق حفظه في المفهوم اليهودي والمسيحي يختلفان عما هو في الاسلام ...

نحن نفهم ، ان كلام الله موحى به للبشر ، واليد البشرية هي عامل اساسي فيه ،اي ان هذه اليد هي التي خطته ، وعلمته ، ونقلته من جيل الى جيل ...

ولهذا لاعجب البتة من تحذير الله لليد البشرية بعدم التطاول على كلماته بالزيادة او النقصان ...

ولاارى الان باعثا للخوض والتعمق في نظرتنا ومفهومنا المسيحي للوحي الالهي ...

لكن مااريد قوله هو ، نظرا لهذا الاختلاف في النظرة للوحي بيننا وبينكم ، لايجوز لك بحال من الاحوال ان تستخدم المقياس الاسلامي القرآني للحكم على وحي الكتاب المقدس ...

فهذا المقياس الاسلامي لاقيمة له لدينا ، وهو يبقى شان خاص فيك انت عزيزي ، ولهذا قلت لك واكرر، لامانع ان تقيس بمقياسك ولكن النتيجة تحتفظ بها لنفسك ...

وانا سأحاول قدر الامكان ابطال تهمة التحريف بدون التعرض الى مقياسك الذي يمكنني ابطاله واظهار فساده وعدم صلاحيته بأمثلة قليلة ... لكني سأترك هذا لغيري من الاحباء الملمين اكثر مني في مسائل حفظ القرآن ، لكن ان لم يفعلوا فعلت انا ذلك في الاخير ...


سألتك انا :

" كيف يأتي المسيح ويتعلم من التوراة ويعلمها للناس ويستشهد بها وهي محرفة ؟؟؟!!!"

جوابك :

انت تعلم جيد ان التوراة التى فى يدك ليست كمثل التوراة فى ايدى اليهود واكبر دليل عقلى على ذلك ان اليهود لا يعترفون بالمسيح

ماهذا ؟!

اليهود لايعترفون بالمسيح لان توراتنا تختلف عن توراتهم !!!!!!

اكبر دليل عقلي !!!!!!

ولا ثبت لك اكثر ان التوراة التى انزلها الله على موسى ماهى صفاتها وحجمها اقرء سيدى وَقَالَ الرَّبُّ لِمُوسَى : اصْعَدْ إِلَى الْجَبَلِ وَامْكُثْ هُنَاكَ لأُعْطِيَكَ الْوَصَايَا وَالشَّرَائِعَ الَّتِي كَتَبْتُهَا عَلَى لَوْحَيِ الْحَجَرِ لِتُلَقِّنَهَا لَهُمْ. ))
على لوحين من الحجر اترى سيدى لوحين فقط من الممكن ان تقول لى انهم لوحين عظام الحجم والطول فساقول لك خطى انظر كيف كان حجمهم
(( تابوتاً من خشب طوله ذراعان ونصف وعرضه ذراع ونصف وارتفاعه ذراع ونصف ، وتضع في التابوت الشهادة التي أعطيك ))

طوله ذراعان ونصف وعرضه ذراع ونصف وارتفاعه ذراع ونصف

ارئيت ان التوراة تضخمت الاف المرات وانها غير التوراة التى كانت مع المسيح وان اردت التوراة الحقيقية اذهب للقران لتعرف ماهى يا سيدى



عم تخبص كتير ياعمي ويصا !

ماهي التوراة ؟

هل هي الوصايا العشر ام انها اكثر من ذلك ؟

ارجوا ان تفيدنا اكثر بمعلوماتك الفذة حول التوراة وكيفية تكاثرها وتضخمها آلاف المرات ... ولاتقل هذه المرة ان معلوماتك متواضعة لانني لن اقبلها منك ابدا ...

لازال سؤالي ينتظر منك جوابا صريحا ومباشرا ...

اين هي التوراة التي علمها المسيح ؟؟؟

اذا كنت تعتقد بتحريف التوراة قبل المسيح فأنت تنسب للمسيح الضلال ...

ارجوا الاجابة الواضحة المباشرة ...


وسؤال آخر مهم ... هل من الصعب على محرف الكتاب ان يضع فيه آية على وزن "إِنَّا نَحْنُ نَزَّلْنَا الذِّكْرَ وَإِنَّا لَهُ لَحَافِظُونَ "؟

من المستحيل ان يتعهد اى انسان ان يحفظ شىء لا يقدر على ذلك الا الله ودليلى ان كتاب الاناجيل لم يتعهد احدا منهم بانة سيحفظ كتابة وان كانوا قادرين لماذا لم يتعهدوا بذلك؟؟؟ اليس كلامى صحيح ؟؟؟؟


لا ، كلامك مش صحيح لانك مش فهمان السؤال ...

الم يكن بوسع الذين حرفو الكتاب ان يضعوا فيه آية تقول " انا الله القدير اتعهد بحفظ هذا الكلام " لكي يثبتو عدم تعرضه للتحريف ؟؟؟

انت تصور لنا محرفين اغبياء وخرفانين ... يحرفون الكتاب ويشهدون على جريمتهم !!!


اكتفي بهذا القدر لئلا اطيل عليك ...

تحياتي
02-24-2005, 02:15 PM
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