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/global.php 958 eval
/showthread.php 28 require_once
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/global.php 961 eval
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/showthread.php 28 require_once
Warning [2] Undefined property: MyLanguage::$bottomlinks_returncontent - Line: 6 - File: global.php(1070) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/showthread.php 673 build_forum_jump
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/inc/functions.php 3442 eval
/showthread.php 673 build_forum_jump
Warning [2] Undefined property: MyLanguage::$forumjump_select - Line: 5 - File: inc/functions.php(3442) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/inc/functions.php 3442 eval
/showthread.php 673 build_forum_jump
Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/showthread.php 1690 eval
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/inc/class_error.php 153 errorHandler->error
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/inc/class_error.php 153 errorHandler->error
/showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code 2 errorHandler->error_callback
/showthread.php 1690 eval
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code 2 errorHandler->error_callback
/showthread.php 1690 eval
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code 2 errorHandler->error_callback
/showthread.php 1690 eval
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/showthread.php 1690 eval
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/showthread.php 1690 eval
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/showthread.php 1690 eval
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/inc/class_error.php 153 errorHandler->error
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/showthread.php 1690 eval
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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{myadvertisements[zone_1]}
ما موقف الزوجة أو الزوج من حور العين ؟
zaidgalal غير متصل
عضو رائد
*****

المشاركات: 4,570
الانضمام: Jan 2005
مشاركة: #34
ما موقف الزوجة أو الزوج من حور العين ؟
Array
يحتج صاحبنا بأن (حور العين) لفئة بعينها من أهل الجة هو (المقربون) .. نسأله : من هم المقربون هؤلاء فجيب بأنهم (رسل الله وأنبياؤه والشهداء والصديقون) .. نسأله مجددا : ولكن ألم يقل الله في كتابه أن كل من يطع الله ورسوله هو مع (رسل الله وأنبياؤه والشهداء والصديقون) ؟ (وَمَن يُطِعِ اللّهَ وَالرَّسُولَ فَأُوْلَئِكَ مَعَ الَّذِينَ أَنْعَمَ اللّهُ عَلَيْهِم مِّنَ النَّبِيِّينَ وَالصِّدِّيقِينَ وَالشُّهَدَاء وَالصَّالِحِينَ وَحَسُنَ أُولَئِكَ رَفِيقًا {4/69} (النساء)
بل .. ألم يقل الله صراحة أن كل متقي سينعم بحور العين (والمتقي وصف مطلق وعام لكل مسلم يطيع الله ورسوله) في قوله (ان المتقين في مقام أمين .... كَذَلِكَ" وَزَوَّجْنَاهُمْ بِحُورٍ عِين) ..

فيأتي العزيز زيد ليرد بكليمات هي : (والمتقون كلمة عامة خصصها الله فيما يخص الحور العين بـ "المقربين")

يا رجل !! اتق الله !!! ..
[/quote]

اتق العلم واتق العقل!!!
ذلك لأنك لا تعرف أن التخصيص أصل في كتاب الله:
المخصص نوعان: متصل ومنفصل. المخصص المنفصل:

وَالْمُطَلَّقَاتُ يَتَرَبَّصْنَ بِأَنْفُسِهِنَّ ثَلَاثَةَ قُرُوءٍ. (البقرة 228) فهذا عام خصصه بقوله:
وَأُولَاتُ الْأَحْمَالِ أَجَلُهُنَّ أَنْ يَضَعْنَ حَمْلَهُنَّ. (الطلاق 4) .. وقوله:
يَاأَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ ءَامَنُوا إِذَا نَكَحْتُمُ الْمُؤْمِنَاتِ ثُمَّ طَلَّقْتُمُوهُنَّ مِنْ قَبْلِ أَنْ تَمَسُّوهُنَّ فَمَا لَكُمْ عَلَيْهِنَّ مِنْ عِدَّةٍ تَعْتَدُّونَهَا فَمَتِّعُوهُنَّ وَسَرِّحُوهُنَّ سَرَاحًا جَمِيلًا. (الأحزاب 49)

ولا يمكن أن نقول أن المطلقة ذات الحمل أو التي لم يُبْنَى بها عدتها ثلاثة قروء لأن الآية تشمل كل مطلقة. ذلك لأن هناك أكثر من آية خصصت العام.
كذلك بالنسبة للمتقين، خصص الله منهم "المقربين" فقط ليكون لهم الحور العين.

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وما زلت عند سؤالي : سم لنا اسماء من قال أن الرواية التي يضعفها محدث واحد فقط تصبح رواية (مختلف فيها) وبالتالي ( لا حجة فيها !؟ وغير مقبولة في الاحتجاج والدلالة ) هكذا بالمطلق .. وانقل لنا اقولهم [/color] ..
اسمع يا عزيزي كلام علمائك الثقات:
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كيف أثبت لك أن "المختلف فيه" هو "مختلف فيه" بالفعل؟؟؟!!! قليلًا من العقل!!!
ما وقع فيه اختلاف فقد تطرق له الاحتمال. وما تطرق له الاحتمال بطل به الاستدلال. هذه قاعدة أصولية لستُ أنا واضعها.

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سؤال العزيز زيد :
أليك أمثلة اخرى (لا مثال واحدا فقط كما طلبت):
يقول ابن الصلاح ( من أهل الحديث من لا يفرد نوع الحسن، ويجعله مندرجاً في أنواع الصحيح لاندراجه في انواع ما يحتج به) (علوم الحديث، ص36).
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الرواية التي بها العدد حكم عليها الأرناؤوط بالضعف والاضطراب. وهذا النوع لا يلزمني.

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رابعا: دعك من كل الكلام السابق واطرحه جانبا (فلعل كل هؤلاء المحدثين والفقهاء والعلماء لا يفهمون !) ودعنا نسلم معك بضعف رواية (72 من حور العين) .. فالسؤال الذي يطرح هنا:

صح في الحديث ان المؤمن في الجنة يعطى قوة كذا وكذا من الجماع !!!! قيل : يا رسول الله أو يطيق ذلك ؟ قال : يعطى قوة مائة رجل !! (اللهم لا حسد ! ) ( رواه الترمذي، مشكاة المصابيح (3/90) ورقمه 5636، وقال محقق المشكاة: قال الترمذي: حديث صحيح غريب، قلت (المحقق) واسناده حسن، بل هو صحيح).

وهنا يسأل: اين سيصرف هؤلاء الرجال الاشداء تلك القوة الجبارة ؟ في اثنتين فقط من حور العين ؟! أيعقل هذا !؟ ..
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أولًا: على فرض صحة الرواية: يعقل هذا. لأنه كما أوتي الرجل قوة جبارة فلماذا لا تؤتى المرأة قوة جبارة كذلك؟؟؟!!! لماذا جعلت القوة في طرف واحد وجعلت ضعف الشهوة وضعف الجسم في الطرف الثاني؟؟؟!!!
ثانيًّا: الحديث باطل ومردود. تعال نقرأ الحديث معًا:

سنن الترمذي - (ج 4 / ص 677)
2536 - حدثنا محمد بن بشار و محمود بن غيلان قالا حدثنا أبو دود الطيالسي عن عمران القطان عن قتادة عن أنس : عن النبي صلى الله عليه و سلم قال يعطى المؤمن في الجنة قوة كذا وكذا من الجماع قيل يا رسول الله أو يطيق ذلك ؟ قال يعطى قوة مائة
وفي الباب عن زيد بن أرقم
قال أبو عيسى هذا حديث صحيح غريب لا نعرفه من حديث قتادة عن أنس إلا من حديث عمران القطان

أولًا: الترمذي غير مطمئن له كما ترى فيصفه بالغرابة وأنه جاء آحادًا من طريق القطان.
ثانيًّا: المتن مخالف للعقل والمنطق. والعقل أصل من الأصول التي ذكرها العلماء التي إذا خالفها الحديث صار باطلًا.
انظر إلى الخبر: يعطى المؤمن في الجنة قوة كذا وكذا من الجماع
والمعنى أن المؤمن سيكون قويًّا في الجنة.
انظر إلى السؤال: أو يطيق ذلك ؟
وهذا غير منطقي لأن الخبر هنا من العقل أن يكون: يعطى المؤمن (72) زوجة في الجنة.
فيكون السؤال منطقيًّا تمامًا.
انظر إلى الإجابة لتجد أنه لا فرق بينها وبين الخبر الأول الذي بني السؤال عليه:
يعطى قوة مائة
والآن ضع الخبرين جنبًا إلى جنب:
يعطى المؤمن في الجنة قوة كذا وكذا من الجماع
يعطى قوة مائة

المتن يتعارض مع العقل كما ترى وبالتالي فالحديث ضعيف.

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بالعقل يا عزيزي زيد : هل يعقل أن يكون للرجل في الدنيا الحق في الجمع بين اربع نساء، فضلا عما مملكت يمينه (الذي لا يحده حد !!) في حين يحرم في الجنة (التي اعد الله فيها لعباده ما لا عين رأيت و أذن سمعت ولا خطر على قلب بشر) ألا من اثنتين فقط !؟ ..
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من قال لك أنني أقول أن الدين يتعارض مع العقل. لقد جعل العلماء "العقل" من الأصول التي نحكم بها على صحة الحديث من ضعفه.
موضوع الأربعة زوجات مرتبط باليتامى ويمكنك أن تذكر الآية كاملة.
وموضوع "ملك" اليمين" قال علماء مثل الشيخين محمد الغزالي ومحمد رشيد رضا أن الصدر الأول في الإسلام لم يكن يزيد عن واحدة. وقال الشيخ محمد عبده أن ملك اليمين يجب أن لا يزيد عن أربع لأن الآية عامة. وبالتالي الموضوع به أخذ ورد وأنت تسوقه كأنه حقيقة ثم تبني عليه سؤالك.

تحياتي
(تم إجراء آخر تعديل على هذه المشاركة: 02-12-2009, 04:13 PM بواسطة zaidgalal.)
02-12-2009, 04:08 PM
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الردود في هذا الموضوع
ما موقف الزوجة أو الزوج من حور العين ؟ - بواسطة zaidgalal - 02-12-2009, 04:08 PM

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