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/global.php 958 eval
/showthread.php 28 require_once
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/global.php 961 eval
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Warning [2] Undefined property: MyLanguage::$bottomlinks_returncontent - Line: 6 - File: global.php(1070) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/showthread.php 673 build_forum_jump
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/inc/functions.php 3442 eval
/showthread.php 673 build_forum_jump
Warning [2] Undefined property: MyLanguage::$forumjump_select - Line: 5 - File: inc/functions.php(3442) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/inc/functions.php 3442 eval
/showthread.php 673 build_forum_jump
Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code 2 errorHandler->error_callback
/showthread.php 1690 eval
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/showthread.php 1690 eval
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/showthread.php 1690 eval
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/showthread.php 1690 eval
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/inc/class_error.php 153 errorHandler->error
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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"جنازة القحبة" أو "ذكرى معاهدة السلام الإسرائيلية المصرية"
طنطاوي غير متصل
عضو رائد
*****

المشاركات: 5,711
الانضمام: Jun 2003
مشاركة: #178
"جنازة القحبة" أو "ذكرى معاهدة السلام الإسرائيلية المصرية"
Array

الزميل المحترم أندربوف.
تحية طيبة و عذرا عن تأخري عن الرد فلم اتبين مداخلتك سوى متأخرا .
ملاحظتك تدعم طرحي و ليس العكس ، أنت تفترض أن الفلسطينيين انضموا لعملية السلام في الشرق الأوسط وهذا ليس حقيقيا ، فهم لم ينضموا لها حتى الآن .
1- عندما انطلقت عملية السلام في عام 1978 عارض الفلسطينيون كلهم العملية و شاركوا بحماس في تشكيل جبهة عربية لإفشال العملية ، ووجهوا جهدهم ضد مصر و شهدت تلك الفترة إغتيال الوزير المصري يوسف السباعي بواسطة جماعات فلسطينية بالإضافة لعمليات أخرى شملت اختطاف طائرات و الإستيلاء على سفارات .... الخ .
2- بعد 15 سنة كاملة من الرفض السلبي ، وهي فترة حاسمة شهدت تمددا إسرائيليا كبيرا التهمت خلاله معظم القدس و الضفة ، مستغلة الرفض الفلسطيني للعملية السلمية ، وقعت السلطة الفلسطينية اتفاقية اوسلو عام 1993 ، وبها حقق الفلسطينيون كل إنجازاتهم منذ نكبة عام 1948 حتى الآن .
3- رغم ذلك فلم توافق كل القوى الفلسطينية الفاعلة على تلك الإتفاقية ولا على العملية السلمية ،و شهدنا جهودا خارقة من حماس و الجهاد لتدمير الإتفاقية و إنهاء عملية السلام الفلسطينية – الإسرائيلية ، تركزت تلك الجهود على عمليات إنتحارية داخل المدن الإسرائيلية ، و هي جهود ناجحة انتهت بنسف العملية السلمية ودفن إتفاقية اوسلو ، ووصل نتنياهو ثم شارون إلى قيادة إسرائيل و إقامة حائط الفصل العنصري الذي ابتلع معظم أراضي الضفة .
4- فشلت السلطة الفلسطينية في حماية الإتفاقية التي وقعتها ، أكثر من ذلك شاركت في عمليات عسكرية خلال الإنتفاضة الثانية ، مما قضى نهائيا على حركات السلام الإسرائيلية ،و أقنع الجميع بعدم جدوى التفاوض مع الفلسطينيين ، بفضل الحماقة السياسية الفلسطينية وتبني الأصولية الدينية والقومية الفلسطينية المسلحة لسلوك طريق الدماء لحل الصراع، في ظل عدم توازن القوى العسكرية بين الخصمين المتناحرين، كما سبق واعترف بذلك محمود عباس نفسه في جريدة "الرأي" الأردنية، 27/9/2004.
5- ومن هنا نقول بأن أثر الأصولية الدينية والقومية الفلسطينية المسلحة السلبي على قيام الدولة الفلسطينية بدءاً من رفضها لاتفاقية أوسلو 1993 وانتهاءً برفضها الاشتراك في الانتخابات الرئاسية 2005 ، وتشكيكها في صحة نتائجها وشرعيتها ، و نجاح حركة حماس الرافضة للسلام بأغلبية الأصوات في الإنتخابات التشريعية عام 2006 ، كان له أثراً أسوأ بكثير على القضية الفلسطينية وتعطيل قيام الدولة الفلسطينية من الاحتلال الإسرائيلي نفسه. والدليل على ذلك أنه كلما لاح بريق حل سلمي في السابق، قامت الفصائل الأصولية الفلسطينية المسلحة بخطف هذا البريق وإطفائه بصواريخ القسّام، أو بعملية انتحارية لكي يجد شارون و خلفاؤه المبرر السياسي لتجميد المباحثات والاتصالات مع القيادة الفلسطينية. وكان آخرها العملية الغريبة التي قامت بها حماس وانتهت بتدمير غزة .
6- لو تصورت سيناريو مغايرا و قد انضم الفلسطينيون إلى مصر في عملية السلام بينما كانت المستعمرات محودة في الضفة الغربية ، لما حدث مانراه الآن ، في النهاية لا أقرر هنا ما يجب ان يفعله الغير ، فقط أؤكد مقولتي مدعوما بحقائق ، ربما يكون النضال الفلسطيني الإسلامي هو الأفضل ،و أن المستقبل يحمل بشارة تدمير إسرائيل ، هذا شيء لا ينفي ما ذكرته بأن (الثابت أن عملية التمدد والتمكين الإسرائيلية لم تحدث إلا في المناطق التي رفض أصحابها السير مع مصر في طريق السلام والتسوية) .
لك خالص الشكر على اهتمامك .

[/quote]
لست مع بهجت في موضوع ان الفلسطينيين كان من الممكن ان يحصلوا علي افضل مما حصلوا عليه لو كانوا "مشيوا" مع السادات ، لسبب بسيط وهو ان متخذ القرار الاسرائيلي ليس اهبل وبريالة ، هو اعطي شبة جزيرة خاوية محتفظاً بنوع من السياده عليها (اتفاقية الغاز مع تحديد قدرات الجيش المصري) مقابل تحييد مصر تماما ، فهي صفقة رابحة بالنسبة له ، اما لو كانت دخلت الحقوق الفلسطينية في الموضوع لتعقدت الصفقة كثيراً ، ففي ذاك الوقت كانت جولدا مائير تقول ان ليس هناك شعب فلسطيني الا ، ومجرد جلوسه علي طاولة واحدة مع اسرائيل كان يعتبر ربحا للفلسطينيين ، وبالحقيقة البحتة فالسبب الجوهري الذي يجعل السلام لم يتم الي اليوم مع الفلسطينيين هو انهم لايستطيعون (باقوي عملياتهم) ايقاع الحد الادني من الالم الذي يجعلها ترفع يدها عنهم. ومسالة الخطر الديموغرافي والوجودي الفلسطيني علي اسرائيل معروف ولا داع لتراره بحين خطر مصر علي اسرائيل هو في القيم المصرية فقط ومن حسن حظ الاسرائيلين تولي كرسي الرئياسة رجل بلا قيم علي الاطلاق.
القصة هي urban legend مصرية معروفة وخاطئة ونوع من التفكير بالتمني وتوهم حل نهائي وخلاصي لكل الشر بالعالم (لو كان الحسين تغلب علي معاوية ، لو كان ابراهيم محمد علي باشا انتصر بنفارين ، لو كان صد عرابي هجوم الانجليز الخ) يعني مجرد وهم بتغير التاريخ بشكل درامي بعد حدث ما بحين نحن نعرف ان التاريخ لا يتحرك بشكل درامي بل عبارة عن تراكم مادي لعوامل متناهية الصغر تجعل مساره حتميا. الطبيعة الحيوانية للهومو سابينز معروفه وفي تاريخه التطوري فقد كان يتغذي علي اللحوم ، هو حيوان اكل للحوم ، فلماذا نتخيل ان هومو سابينز سيعقد صفقة ويخسر فيها ودون اي ربح مع قوم اخرين ادني منه بمراحل ، انه امر يشبه ان تغذي الصراصير عندك بالمنزل لان جارك عالم حشرات.
شخصيا اتوقع انه لو كان الفلسطينيين جلسوا مع اليهود وتفاوضوا اعتقد كان السادات بطبعه النجس لكان لييخرج باتفاق قبل ان يخرجوا هم باتفاقهم واعتقد كان سيحدث convergence للمساريين التاريخين في التسعينيات علي اكثر تقدير، فمن لا يقيم للفلسطينيين اعتباراً وهو يتخذ خطوة الذهاب للقدس لن يقيم لهم وزنا ان توقف اتفاق السلام المصري الاسرائيلي علي كم متر من ضيعة فلسطينية لا نعرف عنها شيئاً كما كان يحدث في التسيعينيات بين عرفات واليهود.
(تم إجراء آخر تعديل على هذه المشاركة: 04-15-2009, 07:26 PM بواسطة طنطاوي.)
04-15-2009, 07:23 PM
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"جنازة القحبة" أو "ذكرى معاهدة السلام الإسرائيلية المصرية" - بواسطة طنطاوي - 04-15-2009, 07:23 PM

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