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/global.php 958 eval
/showthread.php 28 require_once
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/global.php 961 eval
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/showthread.php 673 build_forum_jump
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/showthread.php 673 build_forum_jump
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/showthread.php 673 build_forum_jump
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code 2 errorHandler->error_callback
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/showthread.php 1690 eval
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/showthread.php 1690 eval
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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اضواء حول الصحابي الجليل المغيرة ابن شعبة !!
الصفي غير متصل
عضو رائد
*****

المشاركات: 4,035
الانضمام: Mar 2004
مشاركة: #46
اضواء حول الصحابي الجليل المغيرة ابن شعبة !!
هلا روميو
تحياتي

مداخلتي فيها عدة نقاط بعضها لم يكن موجها لك!

لم ارفض اي حديث صحيح .

فقط طالبت من يسستدل بالاحاديث و السنة ان يلتزم بضوابطهما. فقد يصح الحديث ( قطعية الثبوت) و لا يفهم من يستدل به معناه( ظنية الدلالة). اعطيك مثالا هناك حديث يذكر مرضا اسماه النبي(ص) : عرق النسا. اسال اي طبيب او شيخ او رجل عام ما هو عرق النسا؟
معظمهم سيشير اليك الى مرض يصيب العصب الوركي نتيجة لافة في العمود الفقري ( مثل الانزلاق الغضروفي ) في المنطقة القطنية. حتى قواميس اللغة مثل المورد اذا نظرت اليها تجد:
Sciatica = الم العصبي الوركي- عصبيوركي-له علاقة بالعصب الوركي.
الحديث يقول عرق و الناس يفهمون عصب. لو رجعت لقواميس اللغة تجد ان عرق معناها: ( الاجوف الذي فيه الدم و العصب غير اجوف) يعني القاموس لا يكتفي بتعريف العرق بل يضيف الى التعريف نفي ان يكون العصب عرقا.
اما عن ردودك :
1) القران الكريم نفى ان يكون عيسى بن مريم ( المسيح) عليه السلام قد صلب, و انما رفعه الله اليه. و لكنه لم ينفي ان اليهود قد صلبوا انسانا اتهموه باقوال انكروها. و ارى ان فتح التحقيق الذي اقترحته في مقتل الخليفة عمر احق به انتم. فالخليفة عمر ليس الها عندنا.
2)بالنسبة لسب الصحابة فانا لم اتهمك. لذا فلا حاجة للتحدي. انا اثبت حديث النبي(ص) و قلت اذا ثبت ان النبي(ص) تنبا بان احد اصحابه سيموت كافرا, فليبرزه من عنده. فقد حدث ان تنبا للبعض و حدث. اما اذا لم يثبت حديث صحيح عنه. فيجب ان نمتنع , لثبوت حديث( لا تسبوا اصحابي).و ازيد من يسب اصحاب النبي(ص) : انه نهى عن سبهم على اطلاق النهي. يعني حتى لو ثبت انهم اخطأوا لا تسبوهم لانه برر النهي عن سبهم في الحديث:
ـ 3717 ـ حَدَّثَنَا ادَمُ بْنُ اَبِي اِيَاسٍ، حَدَّثَنَا شُعْبَةُ، عَنِ الاَعْمَشِ، قَالَ سَمِعْتُ ذَكْوَانَ، يُحَدِّثُ عَنْ اَبِي سَعِيدٍ الْخُدْرِيِّ ـ رضى الله عنه ـ قَالَ قَالَ النَّبِيُّ صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏"‏ لاَ تَسُبُّوا اَصْحَابِي، فَلَوْ اَنَّ اَحَدَكُمْ اَنْفَقَ مِثْلَ اُحُدٍ ذَهَبًا مَا بَلَغَ مُدَّ اَحَدِهِمْ وَلاَ نَصِيفَهُ ‏"‏‏.‏ تَابَعَهُ جَرِيرٌ وَعَبْدُ اللَّهِ بْنُ دَاوُدَ وَاَبُو مُعَاوِيَةَ وَمُحَاضِرٌ عَنِ الاَعْمَشِ‏.

فالنهي ليس لانهم ملائكة مبرؤن من الخطأ.

الروايات عن مقتل الخليفة عمر قد لا تكون صحيحة. لذا فان اي تحقيق بمعطيات غير صحيحة لن يفضي الى نتيجة صحيحة.
خذ مثلا الرواية بان ابا لؤلؤة لم يدخله المغيرة المدينة الا لانه كان عاملا ماهرا فاراد المغيرة ان يفرض عليه خراجا من عمله. فاشتكى ابو لؤلؤة المغيرة الى الخليفة عمر. و قتله للخليفة جاء لانه اعتقد ان عمر لم ينصفه في قضيته مع المغيرة.
اذا اخذت بهذه الرواية هل تعتقد ان المغيرة ادخل ابا لؤلؤة الى المدينة كجزء من مؤامرة لقتل الخليفة؟
اذا افترضنا رواية ان مقتل الخليفة عمر كان مؤامرة من المغيرة فان موقفه من عمر يكون واضحا. فما دخل الخليفة عمر بموقفه من آل البيت؟
3)القول بان المغيرة كان يسب صحابة الرسول (ص) ورد في كتب روايات. و المرء امام موقفين التصديق بكتب الروايات او عدم التصديق. انا لا اصدق بكتب الروايات. فاذا كان الحكم حتى في سنة الرسول(ص) و احاديثه ان فيها الصحيح وفيها الضعيف و فيها الموضوع, و وضعت الضوابط من علم مصطلع و علم الجرح و التعديل لمعرفة ذلك , فما هي الضوابط في كتب الروايات؟
07-29-2004, 10:48 AM
زيارة موقع العضو عرض جميع مشاركات هذا العضو إقتباس هذه الرسالة في الرد
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الردود في هذا الموضوع
اضواء حول الصحابي الجليل المغيرة ابن شعبة !! - بواسطة الصفي - 07-29-2004, 10:48 AM

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