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/global.php 958 eval
/showthread.php 28 require_once
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/global.php 961 eval
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Warning [2] Undefined property: MyLanguage::$bottomlinks_returncontent - Line: 6 - File: global.php(1070) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/showthread.php 673 build_forum_jump
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/inc/functions.php 3442 eval
/showthread.php 673 build_forum_jump
Warning [2] Undefined property: MyLanguage::$forumjump_select - Line: 5 - File: inc/functions.php(3442) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/inc/functions.php 3442 eval
/showthread.php 673 build_forum_jump
Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code 2 errorHandler->error_callback
/showthread.php 1690 eval
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/showthread.php 1690 eval
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/showthread.php 1690 eval
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/showthread.php 1690 eval
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/inc/class_error.php 153 errorHandler->error
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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بحث في إثبات أنّ كاتب إنجيل مرقس مجهول
العميد غير متصل
عضو رائد
*****

المشاركات: 934
الانضمام: Jul 2003
مشاركة: #152
بحث في إثبات أنّ كاتب إنجيل مرقس مجهول
http://forum.nadyelfikr.net/viewthread.php...=33509&pid=#pid

اقتباس:الراعي كتب  
3 – كما كان لتلاميذ الرب يسوع المسيح ورسله خلفاء وتلاميذ كثيرون في كل مكان بشروا فيه، أسمتهم الكنيسة بالآباء الرسوليين، ومن هؤلاء من كان تلميذاً للقديس بطرس وغيره من الرسل مثل أغناطيوس أسقف إنطاكية وبوليكاربوس أسقف سميرنا بآسيا الصغرى والذي كان تلميذا للقديس يوحنا الرسول تلميذ المسيح. هؤلاء ورفاقهم الذين لم يتركوا لنا كتابات خاصة بهم، استلموا منهم الإنجيل الشفوي قبل أن يكتب، مع بقية المؤمنين، ثم الإنجيل المكتوب، ثم سلموه بدورهم لخلفائهم هم أيضا، مع بقية الجماعة والكنيسة المسيحية، وهؤلاء سلموه بدورهم لمن بعدهم حتى جاءت المجامع الكنسية سواء المحلية والتي بدأت في نهاية القرن الثاني الميلادي، أو المسكونية التي بدأت بمجمع نيقية سنة 1325م.



لماذا تتقوّل على بوليكاربوس وإغناطيوس وتلصق بهم ما لم يقولوا ؟؟؟

أين قال تلاميذ الرسل إنهم أخذوا إنجيل مرقس عن رسل المسيح ؟

هات لنا ما يثبت أن تلاميذ الرسل أخذوا إنجيل مرقس عن رسل المسيح ، وإلا فكل كلامك هو حشو وتطويل لا قيمة له .


اقتباس:الراعي كتب  
يقول القديس أكليمندس الإسكندري (150 - 215) المعروف بخليفة خلفاء الرسل والذي حفظ عنهم التقليد ، والذي يقول عنه المؤرخ الكنسي يوسابيوس القيصري أنه كان " متمرساً في الأسفار المقدسة " (يوسابيوس ك 5 ف1) : " وقد حافظ هؤلاء الأشخاص على التقليد الحقيقي للتعليم المبارك، المسلم مباشرة من الرسل القديسين بطرس ويعقوب ويوحنا وبولس، إذ كان الابن يتسلمه عن أبيه 000 حتى وصل إلينا بإرادة الله لنحافظ على هذه البذار الرسولية " (يوسا ك 5 ف5:11).

أولاً : أرجو أن تعطي دليلاً على كلامك أن اكلمندس خليفة خلفاء الرسل ، ثم إننا نلاحظ في الهامش على تاريخ يوسيبيوس ما يشير إلى أن هذا الكلام غير ثابت ، انظر التعليق رقم 185 :

http://biblestudy.churches.net/CCEL/FATHER...M#P3079_1424476


ثانياً : لا يوجد في هذا الكلام أن مرقس هو كاتب الإنجيل الثاني ، ولم يثبت لكلمندس أنه نَسب الإنجيل الثاني لمرقس ، اللهم إلا ما ذكره يوسيبيوس عنه وهو باطل لأنه منقطع السند مرتين كما ذكرنا .

ثالثاً : التقليد مصطلح عام يشمل جوانب عديدة تخص أمور الكنيسة ، وليس بالضرورة أن يكون عن الإنجيل الثاني ، فمن إدعى أن الأبن أخذ عن أبيه اسم كاتب الإنجيل الثاني فعليه الدليل بكلام صريح بيّن واضح لا لبس فيه ، وليس بكلام عام يغصّ بالاحتمالات والمبهمات .

رابعاً : لو كان ما وصل إلى اكلمندس – على فرض صحة زعمكم جدلاً – يُعتبر حقيقة وتقليداً مسلم بها ، فعليكم ( أنتم الأرثوذكس الأقباط ) أن تؤمنوا بكل ما وصله ، فمن جملة ما وصله أنّ بطرس كرز في روما ، وأن ما كتبه مرقس هو عبارة عن مذكرات بطرس ، وهذا ما ترفضونه أنتم جملة وتفصيلاً ، فإما أن تؤمنوا بكل ما وصله أو تكذبوه فيه كله ، أما أن تأخذوا ما يوافق هواكم دون دليل أو برهان فهذا هو التحكم بالهوى والكيل بمكيالين ، فتارة كلامه حجة وتارة ليس بحجة .


اقتباس:الراعي كتب  
ويقول العلامة ترتليان (160 – 220م)، الذي قال عنه القديس جيروم أنه " يعتبر رائداً للكتبة اللاتين " (مشاهير الرجال ف 53): " أن كُتاب العهد الإنجيلي هم الرسل الذين عينهم الرب نفسه لنشر الإنجيل إلى جانب الرجال الرسوليين الذين ظهروا مع الرسل وبعد الرسل 000 يوحنا ومتى اللذان غرسا الإيمان داخلنا ، ومن الرسوليين لوقا ومرقس اللذان جدداه لنا بعد ذلك " (Ag.Marcion4:2).



هذا الكلام رددنا عليه من قبل وأكرره هنا ، لعل في الإعادة إفادة :
قول ترتليان مردود لا يصلح للإستشهاد لأن سنده منقطع ، فترتليان مولود حوالي سنة 165 م ، أي بعد وفاة مرقس بأكثر من مئة سنة ، ولم يخبرنا ما هي الواسطة التي عرف بها ، وما كان كذلك فهو مردود ساقط لا يحتج به لأن الواسطة مجهولة ، ولا يصلح التخمين في هذا الحالة أي أن نخمن الطريقة التي عرف بها ، لأن هذا دين وعقيدة ، والعقيدة لا يمكن أن تبنى على الظنون والتخمينات بل على القطعي الثابت.

وكذلك قوله بالنسبة للأرثوذكس الأقباط يحتوي على أمور باطلة عندهم ، منها أنّ ترتليان يقرر أن مرقس كان مترجماً لبطرس ، وهذا أنكره تادرس ملطي فيما نقله عن البابا شنودة ، وكذلك يؤكد ترتليان على عدم رسولية مرقس إذ أنه يصف من كتب الإنجيلين الآخرين ( غير الذي لمتى ويوحنا ) بأنهما رفيقان للرسل ، بينما الكنيسة القبطية ترى أن مرقس من الرسل السبعين .



يتبع إن شاء الله ..
11-08-2005, 01:14 AM
زيارة موقع العضو عرض جميع مشاركات هذا العضو إقتباس هذه الرسالة في الرد
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الردود في هذا الموضوع
بحث في إثبات أنّ كاتب إنجيل مرقس مجهول - بواسطة ضيف - 08-04-2005, 01:45 AM,
بحث في إثبات أنّ كاتب إنجيل مرقس مجهول - بواسطة ضيف - 08-04-2005, 05:05 AM,
بحث في إثبات أنّ كاتب إنجيل مرقس مجهول - بواسطة ضيف - 10-15-2005, 03:14 AM,
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بحث في إثبات أنّ كاتب إنجيل مرقس مجهول - بواسطة العميد - 11-08-2005, 01:14 AM
بحث في إثبات أنّ كاتب إنجيل مرقس مجهول - بواسطة ضيف - 11-20-2005, 08:51 AM,

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