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/global.php 958 eval
/showthread.php 28 require_once
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/global.php 961 eval
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Warning [2] Undefined property: MyLanguage::$bottomlinks_returncontent - Line: 6 - File: global.php(1070) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/showthread.php 673 build_forum_jump
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/inc/functions.php 3442 eval
/showthread.php 673 build_forum_jump
Warning [2] Undefined property: MyLanguage::$forumjump_select - Line: 5 - File: inc/functions.php(3442) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/inc/functions.php 3442 eval
/showthread.php 673 build_forum_jump
Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code 2 errorHandler->error_callback
/showthread.php 1690 eval
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/showthread.php 1690 eval
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/showthread.php 1690 eval
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/showthread.php 1690 eval
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/inc/class_error.php 153 errorHandler->error
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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بحث في إثبات أنّ كاتب إنجيل مرقس مجهول
العميد غير متصل
عضو رائد
*****

المشاركات: 934
الانضمام: Jul 2003
مشاركة: #194
بحث في إثبات أنّ كاتب إنجيل مرقس مجهول
الزميل God_is_love

اقتباس: God_is_love كتب/كتبت
أنا اثبت لك
1_ مركيون تلميذ بولس الرسول عرف إنجيل مرقس ....

يا عزيزي يبدو أن معلوماتك سطحية جداً ، وليس لك اطلاع واسع في هذه الأمور .

القول بأن "مركيون عرف إنجيل مرقس" لا يعني أنه عرف من هو كاتب الإنجيل ، فمعرفة الإنجيل شيء ، ومعرفة كاتب الإنجيل شيء آخر .

ثم إن رفض مركيون لإنجيل مرقس هو دليل ضدك ، فلو أنه يعتقد أن كاتب الإنجيل هو أحد رسل المسيح لما رفض قبوله ، فرفضه له دليل أنه لا يؤمن بصدق وحيه .





اقتباس: God_is_love كتب/كتبت
2_ أباء من بينهم *البابا* في الكنيسة المقدسة في روما في أواخر القرن الثاني وضعوا لائحة للكتاب المقدس
إذاً يا عزيزي إن الذين دافعوا عن الكتاب المقدس هم إما تلامذة للتلاميذ أو تلامذة الأباء الرسوليين كأقصى حد إن لم يكن أحداً منهم تلميذ مرقس مباشرة وهم اكبر سند تحتاجه

لم تثبت شيئاً ، مجرد كلام مرسل ليس له دليل إلا كلام حبيب سعيد ..!!!! ، وتريدنا أن نصدق ، لماذا ؟؟ لأن حبيب سعيد قال !!!!

فأنا ما زلت أنتظر الدليل وإلا فكلامك هذا ساقط مردود .





[quote] God_is_love كتب/كتبت
3_ ترتليان وضع كل سفر و اثبت صحته ... فهل قرأت الكتاب ؟؟؟؟

تفضل وأخرج لنا النصوص التي أثبت فيها ترتليان ما تزعمه سيادتك لنفحصها ، فلا تظن أنك تقول جملة ونتركك هكذا دون أن نوقفك عندها ونسألك عن الدليل ..

ثم هل تعرف سيادتك ما هي لائحة ترتليان للكتب المقدسة قبل أن تتحدث عن اللوائح ؟؟


اقتباس: God_is_love كتب/كتبت
و في مداخلتي [184] اثبت ان القديس بابياس عرف و قال أن مرقس كتب الإنجيل
و كل هذا قبل 200 للميلاد ….

من يقرأ كلامك هذا يظن أنك بالفعل أثبت شيئاً ، لنستعرض ما ذكرته سيادتك في المداخلة رقم 184 :

(( تنقض ما قاله المؤرخ الكنسي يوسيبيوس و انت لم تقرا كتابه
اقرا يقول المؤرخ الكنسي يوسيبيوس " ولا يزال بين أيدينا خمسة كتب لبابياس تحمل اسم تفسير أقوال الرب " )) .


هذا كلامك بالحرف ...

وما فعلته سيادتك هو أنك ذهبت إلى موضوع الفاضل الراعي ونقلت جوابه على كلامي وأوقعت نفسك في تدليس الراعي في نقله عن يوسيبيوس ، لأنك تنقل دون دراية وعلم وتقلد غيرك دون فهم ..

والمصيبة أنك تظهر نفسك كأنك قرأت تاريخ الكنيسة ليوسيبيوس وتعرفه جيداً ، وأنا أكاد أجزم أنك لم تسمع به من قبل ..

يا عزيزي الفاضل ، النص الذي نقلته عن يوسيبيوس زاد فيه الزميل الراعي من عنده كعادته في تحريف النصوص ، فيوسيبيوس لم يقل ( لا يزال بين أيدينا خمسة كتب لبابياس ) ، بل قال ( هناك خمسة كتب موجودة لبابياس ) ، وهذا هو النص بالإنكليزية لترى :
There are extant five books of Papias, which bear the title Expositions of Oracles of the Lord

فكلمة " لا يزال " وكلمة "بين أيدينا" هي تحريف من الزميل الراعي ، فيوسيبيوس لم يقل أنها بين يديه .... فـتأمل !!!


أما عن شهادة بابياس فكما يبدو أنك لم تقرأ ما ذكرته للزميل الراعي في المداخلة رقم 86

وهذا هو نصها لعلك تنتفع بها :
اقتباس:إلى الزميل الراعي وإلى كل من لا يزال يرى شهادة بابياس صالحة ، أنقل له مقتطفات من أقوال الأب متى المسكين فيه ، وهي جزء مما كتبته سابقاً للفاضل أوريجانوس .


كتابات بابياس تأليف مزيف

يقول الأب متى المسكين نقلاً عن فارر:
( إن التقليد المنحدر لنا من بابياس ينبغي بكل بساطة التخلِّي عنه لأنه يعتبر تأليفاً مزيفاً

إن كان تأليفاُ مزيفاً فبم تتعلق ؟؟




لا مصداقية لأقوال بابياس فيما يخص القديس مرقس وإنجيله

يقول الأب متى : ( أمَّا تقليد جميع المؤرخين القدامى الآخرين الذين سجلنا أقوالهم فهي نسخة من أقوال بابياس الذي بقوله أن ق. مرقس لم يَرَ الرب ولا سمعه [COLOR=Red]يكون قد ألغى كل مصداقية أقواله فيما يخص القديس مرقس وإنجيله

أنظر عزيزي إلى ما يقوله ، من أجل نقطة واحدة ألغى الأب متى المسكين كل مصداقية أقواله فيما يخص القديس مرقس وإنجيله ، بينما عبت علينا حكمنا عليه من خلال نقاط عديدة ؟؟



شهادة بابياس مخلخلة

يقول الأب متى المسكين : [color=Navy]( أمَّا بخصوص نقد ما جاء في بابياس أسقف هيرابوليس بخصوص أن حوادث إنجيل ق. مرقس [ليس لها ترتيب] في حياة وتعليم المسيح، فهي تهمة تنفيها الفحوص والبحث العلمي الموثوق به، وهي تهمة لا وجود لها( ) [COLOR=Red]وهذا بالتالي يخلخل كل ما جاء عند بابياس ومَنْ أخذ منه




بابياس مجروح الشهادة

يقول الأب متى : ( عصر الآباء الأُول الذين أقروا أن هذا الإنجيل لمرقس الرسول ولكنهم نقلوا شهادة بابياس المجروح الشهادة

فها هو يصرح بكل وضوح أن شهادة بابياس مجروحة ، وهي نفس النتيجة التي عبتها علينا ، وشهد شاهد من أهلها .




[size=5] العلماء يشكون في شهادة بابياس

يقول الأب متى المسكين : [color=Navy]( وقد وصلت شهادته( أي بابياس ) إلينا عن طريق يوسابيوس القيصري ومجملها أن ق. مرقس كان “مترجماً” لأقوال بطرس الرسول.[COLOR=Red] ولكن العلماء الآن يشكُّون في صحة شهادة بابياس


العلماء يشكون في صحتها ومنهم من يقول يجب التخلي عنها !!!


[SIZE=5]الأب متى المسكين يذكر بابياس بصيغة الاستصغار


يقول : ( هذا هو الإنجيل بحسب ق. مرقس كما نراه من خلف هذه الشواهد التي طوَّحت به بعيداً عن واقعه وحجبت تعليمه عنَّا كل القرون السالفة ظلماً وبدون معرفة[COLOR=Red] بسبب هذا البابياس

هذا كله في مقدمة شرح إنجيل مرقس للأب متى المسكين ..

ويا ليتك تراجع أيضاً المداخلة التي قبلها ، وأعني المداخلة رقم 85


يتبع إن شاء الله ..

11-28-2005, 03:36 AM
زيارة موقع العضو عرض جميع مشاركات هذا العضو إقتباس هذه الرسالة في الرد
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بحث في إثبات أنّ كاتب إنجيل مرقس مجهول - بواسطة ضيف - 10-19-2005, 02:03 AM,
بحث في إثبات أنّ كاتب إنجيل مرقس مجهول - بواسطة ضيف - 10-20-2005, 01:17 AM,
بحث في إثبات أنّ كاتب إنجيل مرقس مجهول - بواسطة ضيف - 11-20-2005, 08:51 AM,
بحث في إثبات أنّ كاتب إنجيل مرقس مجهول - بواسطة العميد - 11-28-2005, 03:36 AM

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