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/global.php 958 eval
/showthread.php 28 require_once
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/global.php 961 eval
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/showthread.php 673 build_forum_jump
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/showthread.php 673 build_forum_jump
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/showthread.php 673 build_forum_jump
Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/showthread.php 1690 eval
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/showthread.php 1690 eval
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/inc/functions_post.php 898 pluginSystem->run_hooks
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/inc/class_plugins.php 142 thankyoulike_postbit
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بحث فى مصطلح ابن الله فى العهد الجديد
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بحث فى مصطلح ابن الله فى العهد الجديد
( 2 \ 2 )

Array eeww2000 كتب/كتبت

: 30 انا و الاب واحد فان دايك
اولا
هذا العدد لا يدل على ثالوث بل على ثنائى فقط و لا يوجد اى اشارة الى ثلاثة اقانيم فى اله واحد .......
[/quote]


متى 28 : 18فَتَقَدَّمَ يَسُوعُ وَكَلَّمَهُمْ قَائِلاً: «دُفِعَ إِلَيَّ كُلُّ سُلْطَانٍ فِي السَّمَاءِ وَعَلَى الأَرْضِ 19فَاذْهَبُوا وَتَلْمِذُوا جَمِيعَ الأُمَمِ وَعَمِّدُوهُمْ بِاسْمِ الآبِ وَالاِبْنِ وَالرُّوحِ الْقُدُسِ. 20وَعَلِّمُوهُمْ أَنْ يَحْفَظُوا جَمِيعَ مَا أَوْصَيْتُكُمْ بِهِ.


Array eeww2000 كتب/كتبت
ثانيا
اذا قال يسوع انا و الاب واحد فالسؤال هو واحد ماذا او واحد فى ماذا
اله واحد اقنوم واحد من اصل واحد جوهر واحد كائن واحد ؟؟؟
هل يعنى النص ان يسوع اب نفسه ؟
ان يسوع لم يقل انه الاب حتى نعتبره اله مثله و لم يقل انا و الاب اله واحد
[/quote]

ما الفارق بين أنا و الآب واحد و أنا و الآب آلها واحد ؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟ لا فارق .


Array eeww2000 كتب/كتبت
كيف نفسر هذا النص ؟؟؟؟؟؟
17: 21 ليكون الجميع واحدا كما انك انت ايها الاب في و انا فيك ليكونوا هم ايضا واحدا فينا ليؤمن العالم انك ارسلتني
17: 22 و انا قد اعطيتهم المجد الذي اعطيتني ليكونوا واحدا كما اننا نحن واحد
17: 23 انا فيهم و انت في ليكونوا مكملين الى واحد و ليعلم العالم انك ارسلتني و احببتهم كما احببتني
[/quote]

الابن واحد مع الآب و متحد به و التلاميذ و معهم كل المؤمنين الذين عند نوالهم مسحة الروح القدس الأقنوم الثالث من الله الواحد يتوحدون كلهم في فكر واحد و روح واحد و إيمان واحد فاتحاد الآب و الابن اتحاد الذات و اللاهوت أما اتحاد التلاميذ و كل المؤمنين معهم بالروح القدس هو اتحاد للأيمان و الفكر و النعمة فيكون مصدر أيمانهم و فكرهم و نعمتهم هو واحد ……الله الواحد الأحد الذي لا ينقسم و لا يتجزأ و لا يعتريه تغيير أو ظل دوران .

لماذا أعتبرنا أتحاد الابن بالآب هو وحدة ذات و أتحاد المؤمنين هو وحدة فكر و هدف و نعمة ؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟

لماذا فصلنا بين الوحدتين ؟؟؟؟؟؟؟

السبب بسيط جدا و شرحته لك من قبل بعدة آيات مختلفة توضح الفارق بين بنوة السيد المسيح لله كبنوة ( طبيعية ) أي وحدة طبيعة و ذات و بين بنوة المؤمنين له و سأكرر الدلائل مرة أخرى .

يوحنا 1 : 14وَالْكَلِمَةُ صَارَ جَسَداً وَحَلَّ بَيْنَنَا وَرَأَيْنَا مَجْدَهُ مَجْداً كَمَا لِوَحِيدٍ مِنَ الآبِ مَمْلُوءاً نِعْمَةً وَحَقّاً. 15يُوحَنَّا شَهِدَ لَهُ وَنَادَى: «هَذَا هُوَ الَّذِي قُلْتُ عَنْهُ: إِنَّ الَّذِي يَأْتِي بَعْدِي صَارَ قُدَّامِي لأَنَّهُ كَانَ قَبْلِي». 16وَمِنْ مِلْئِهِ نَحْنُ جَمِيعاً أَخَذْنَا وَنِعْمَةً فَوْقَ نِعْمَةٍ. 17لأَنَّ النَّامُوسَ بِمُوسَى أُعْطِيَ أَمَّا النِّعْمَةُ وَالْحَقُّ فَبِيَسُوعَ الْمَسِيحِ صَارَا. 18اَللَّهُ لَمْ يَرَهُ أَحَدٌ قَطُّ. اَلاِبْنُ الْوَحِيدُ الَّذِي هُوَ فِي حِضْنِ الآبِ هُوَ خَبَّرَ.

بهذا اظهرت محبة الله فينا ان الله قد ارسل ابنه الوحيد الى العالم لكي نحيا به 1 يو 9:4

{ هكذا احب الله العالم حتى بذل ابنه الوحيد لكي لا يهلك كل من يؤمن به يو 16:3

كما تري يا عزيزي فالموضوع لا علاقة له بالأهواء أو بمجمع نيقية كما تظنون , بل هو نصوص صريحة تظهر كيف أن الابن ( الكلمة ) السيد المسيح هو أزلي وواحد مع الآب (1فِي الْبَدْءِ كَانَ الْكَلِمَةُ وَالْكَلِمَةُ كَانَ عِنْدَ اللَّهِ وَكَانَ الْكَلِمَةُ اللَّهَ.) و كيف أنه تجسد في وقت معين (14وَالْكَلِمَةُ صَارَ جَسَداً وَحَلَّ بَيْنَنَا وَرَأَيْنَا مَجْدَهُ مَجْداً كَمَا لِوَحِيدٍ مِنَ الآبِ مَمْلُوءاً نِعْمَةً وَحَقّاً ) و أنه واحد مع الآب و متحد به و هو الذي يعلن و يظهر لنا الله و قدرته بعد ظهوره في الجسد (اَللَّهُ لَمْ يَرَهُ أَحَدٌ قَطُّ. اَلاِبْنُ الْوَحِيدُ الَّذِي هُوَ فِي حِضْنِ الآبِ هُوَ خَبَّرَ. )

أما بالنسبة لباقي المؤمنين فنري الأمر يختلف فيقول الكتاب المقدس (وَأَمَّا كُلُّ الَّذِينَ قَبِلُوهُ فَأَعْطَاهُمْ سُلْطَاناً أَنْ يَصِيرُوا أَوْلاَدَ اللَّهِ أَيِ الْمُؤْمِنُونَ بِاسْمِهِ.) أي أن المؤمنون يسموا أولاد الله ليس لأنهم حاملين لنفس الطبيعة الإلهية كما تكلم عن الابن ( الكلمة ) الأزلي بل لأنهم آمنوا باسمه و بأيمانهم نالوا نعمة و فكر من مصدر واحد هو الله .

الموضوع يا عزيزي ليس أهواء بل نصوص صريحة توضح أن اتحاد الآب بالابن اتحاد ذات و يختلف عن اتحاد باقي المؤمنين
بروح الله لأنه اتحاد نعمة و أيمان و فكر .

رومية 8 : 13لأَنَّهُ إِنْ عِشْتُمْ حَسَبَ الْجَسَدِ فَسَتَمُوتُونَ وَلَكِنْ إِنْ كُنْتُمْ بِالرُّوحِ تُمِيتُونَ أَعْمَالَ الْجَسَدِ فَسَتَحْيَوْنَ. 14لأَنَّ كُلَّ الَّذِينَ يَنْقَادُونَ بِرُوحِ اللهِ فَأُولَئِكَ هُمْ أَبْنَاءُ اللهِ. 15إِذْ لَمْ تَأْخُذُوا رُوحَ الْعُبُودِيَّةِ أَيْضاً لِلْخَوْفِ بَلْ أَخَذْتُمْ رُوحَ التَّبَنِّي الَّذِي بِهِ نَصْرُخُ: «يَا أَبَا الآبُ!». 16اَلرُّوحُ نَفْسُهُ أَيْضاً يَشْهَدُ لأَرْوَاحِنَا أَنَّنَا أَوْلاَدُ اللهِ.

لذلك فعندما نقول عن هذه الآية ( ليكونوا هم أيضا واحد فينا كما أنت أيها الآب في و انا فيك ) تري لماذا أن تفسيرنا للعلاقة بين الآب و الأبن يختلف عن تفسيرنا للعلاقة بين باقي التلاميذ و المؤمنين عموما بالله الواحد .

دعني أقربها لك مرة أخري بصورة أبسط عندما نقول ( أنما المؤمنون أخوة ) فهل هذا يفسر حرفيا أن كل مؤمن يدخل في الدين يأخذ نفس أسم الأب و الأم الذين ولدوا المؤمن الذي قبله و هلم جرا فيصبح أسم أب و أم لأول مؤمن بالدين هو أسم والدي كل مؤمن يأتي بعد هذا ؟؟؟؟

هل نقول أن كل المؤمنون حرفيا و لدوا من نفس الأب و الأم ليكونوا أخوة هكذا حرفيا فيصبح لوالدي أول مؤمن ولد و بعد هذا أثنين ثم ثلاثة إلى أن يصلوا لمئات الملايين ؟؟؟

أم نفسرها روحيا بأنهم أخوة بمعني تشابههم و اشتراكهم في فكر واحد و أيمان واحد و هدف واحد .
ثانيا عندما نقول أن ( سمير شاكر عزت) و ( هاني شاكر عزت ) هم أخوة هل نقول أنه وحدة فكر و هدف أم وحدة طبيعة أيضا لأنهم من نفس الأب و الأم ؟؟؟؟؟؟
لماذا نفسر كلامنا علي أن المؤمنون أخوة تفسيرا روحيا و نفسر كلامنا علي أن سمير و هاني حرفيا ؟؟؟؟؟؟
العقل و المنطق وقليل من التمييز و التفكير و سياق الكلام هو الذي يدفعنا لذلك .

عندما نقول لأصدقائنا و الذين يتفقون معنا في الأهداف و الفكر ( انتم أكثر من أخوة ) فهل نفسر هذا روحيا أم حرفيا ؟؟؟؟
نعود لمثالنا السابق عندما يقول ( سمير شاكر عزت ) لأصدقائه أنتم أكثر من أخوة فهل يعني هذا أن أسمائهم ستتغير ليصبحوا جميعا
يحملون أسم والده ( شاكر عزت ) كأخيه الفعلي ( هاني شاكر عزت ) .

عزيزي أرجو أن أكون قد أوضحت المعني من الكتاب المقدس و المفهوم الإنساني العادي

و لك السلام و التحية
عبد المسيح
03-15-2007, 02:40 PM
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بحث فى مصطلح ابن الله فى العهد الجديد - بواسطة ABDELMESSIH67 - 03-15-2007, 02:40 PM

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