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/global.php 958 eval
/showthread.php 28 require_once
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/global.php 961 eval
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/showthread.php 673 build_forum_jump
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/showthread.php 673 build_forum_jump
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/showthread.php 673 build_forum_jump
Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/showthread.php 1690 eval
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/showthread.php 1690 eval
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/inc/class_error.php 153 errorHandler->error
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/inc/functions_post.php 898 pluginSystem->run_hooks
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/inc/class_plugins.php 142 thankyoulike_postbit
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بحث فى مصطلح ابن الله فى العهد الجديد
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عضو فعّال
***

المشاركات: 195
الانضمام: May 2003
مشاركة: #34
بحث فى مصطلح ابن الله فى العهد الجديد
الزميل عبد المسيح ساضع رد على كل ما ذكرته فى خلال يومين و اشكرك تاخرت قليلا فعذرا...........................

قبل ان اضع ردى على الزميل عبد المسيح
لا مانع من الرد على فانس لتوضيح بعض الامور:



يقول فانس فى نهاية رده الاخير:

فانت تجمع بين ( اثبات الاسلام لتفرد راو ) - بالرغم من انك لم تتكلم في هذا الموضوع و لكنى افترض انك تعرفه اساسا و تؤمن به- و بين ( انكار علماء مسيحيين لاجتماع مخطوطات علي ما لم يوجد في مخطوطات اخرى ) .

و هذه مغالطتك فانكرها ان امكنك ........................................


الرد :

واضح جدا الحالة التى وصل اليها فانس هو يفترض انى اقول و يرد على افتراضه و يصل الى نتيجة انى مغالط
و يتحدانى ان انكر مغالطة هو يقولها و يعترف انى لم اتكلم فيها اصلا ........

الم اقل ان الموضوع يجب ان يحول الى اخصائي نفسى .....................

سيد فانس رد على ما اكتبه و ليس على ما تتخيل انى اكتبه و لا تجعل ردك يعتمد على ما اعرفه او لا اعرفه .

و الله المستعان وحده .......

طبعا هو ما يزال يتجاهل كل التحريفات التى ذكرتها عن المخطوطة السينائية وغيرها و لا اعتقد انه سيرد يوما هو كل تركيزه على العبارة التى يظن انى اخطات فيها بل انه ختم كلامه بها حتى نظل ندور فى الحلقة ربما هى طريقة جديدة فى الحوار او بمعنى اصح الهروب من الحوار و لا يهم فى الحقيقة المهم انا غيرت العبارة التى يتمسك بها و كما توقعت لن يتركها ابدا لانها كل ما عنده مع الاسف .
و اذا كان يتمسك ببروس متزجر هل يجرؤ ان يضع راى بروس فى التحريفات التى ذكرتها ؟؟؟.

و الان نجيب على اسئلته العبقرية :


1- ما هي الاكتشافات الحديثة ( فما اكتشه وستكوت اكتشفه بروس )

الرد :
الاكتشافات الحديثة هى المخطوطات التى اكتشفت حديثا مثل السينائية و لا فرق عندى بين بروس و وستكوت الاول وضعها بين قوسين لانه لم يجرؤ ان يجعلها من النص الاصلى الا بعد وضعها بين قوسين و الثانى حذفها تماما و اتبعه الكثير من المترجمين حديثا.
و السؤال لامعنى له فى الواقع الا للجدال لانه يعرف ما اكتشفه بروس و يقول انه يساوى ما اكتشفه وستكوت اذن هو يعرف الاجابة و الكل يعرف الاجابة الان المصطلح محذوف من المخطوطة السينائية و لم يجرؤ احد على نفى ذلك و كل ما يفعله فانس هو التخفيف من قيمة ذلك بقوله انهم كلمتين فقط و عندما اخبره بالعشرات من الاختلافات لا يرد و يرجع الى نقطة البداية .


2- ما هي الترجمات التى تعتمد علي الاكتشافات الحديثة و ما هو الدليل علي اعتمادها علي المكتشفات الحديثة ؟

الرد :
سؤال اخر لتضييع الوقت :
تريد ان تعرف الترجمات الحديثة هى الترجمات التى تحذف هذا المصطلح من افتتاحية مرقص و هى التى تحذف نصوص كثيرة .
و عندما تفتح ترجمة و لاتجد بها النصوص او الكلمات التالية اعرف انها تعتمد على الاكتشافات الحديثة :

مرقص 9: 29 :
29فَقَالَ لَهُمْ: «هَذَا \لْجِنْسُ لاَ يُمْكِنُ أَنْ يَخْرُجَ بِشَيْءٍ إلاَّ بِالصَّلاَةِ وَ\لصَّوْمِ».

اذا لم تجد كلمة الصوم اذن هذه ترجمة حديثة

تيموثاوس 3: 16
16وَبِالإِجْمَاعِ عَظِيمٌ هُوَ سِرُّ \لتَّقْوَى: \للهُ ظَهَرَ فِي \لْجَسَدِ،
الكلمة المترجمة الله غير موجودة فى النسخة السينائية او فى النسخة الفاتيكانية و المذكور كلمة "هو"

اذن اذا وجدت ترجمة تحذف لفظ الجلالة الله اذن هى ترجمة حديثة ...........هذا هو الدليل الذى تطلب

راجع بقية النصوص فى ردى السابق و هى جزء صغير لان التحريفات بالمئات



واذكر نص واحد مع توضيح ربما بهديك الله اقرا بتركيز و لا تتسرع كالعادة:

اعمال 8: 37


37فَقَالَ فِيلُبُّسُ: «إِنْ كُنْتَ تُؤْمِنُ مِنْ كُلِّ قَلْبِكَ يَجُوزُ». فَأَجَابَ: «أَنَا أُومِنُ أَنَّ يَسُوعَ \لْمَسِيحَ هُوَ \بْنُ \للهِ».


هل تعرف المحذوف فى الترجمات الحديثة هو المصطلح الذى نبحث فيه نعم ابن الله محذوف هنا ايضا من السينائية هل تضع قول بروس متزجر فى هذا العدد . بل ان العدد كله محذوف و ليس مصطلح ابن الله فقط

هل تستطيع ان ترد ؟؟؟؟

و لنرى المكتوب فى الترجمة اليسوعية او الكاثوليكية :

لا شىء_____________________________ العبارة بالكامل محذوفة !!!!!!!!


و فى بداية الحوار وضعت بعض الترجمات لتؤيد وجهة نظرك هل تجرؤ ان تضع ما تقوله الترجمات التى وضعتها انت على العدد السابق ؟؟؟؟؟



اكرر هذا السؤال و اعتذر عن الاطالة و الملل انت ذكرت الترجمات الاتية لاثبات انها تذكر مصطلح ابن الله حسنا ماريك نفس الترجمات تحذف مصطلح ابن الله من العدد 8 : 37 اعمال الرسل او تذكر فى الهامش انه غير موجود فى المخطوطات الاقدم :


THE AMERICAN STANDARD NEW TESTAMENT
النسخة القياسية الامريكية


37[[a]And Philip said, "If you believe with all your heart, you may." And he answered and said, "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God."]

Footnotes:

Acts 8:37 Early mss do not contain this v
لاحظ العبارة التى فى الهامش تقول ان المخطوطات القديمة لا تحتوى على هذا العدد و لم يقل بعض المخطوطات


Bible in Basic English
8:36 And while they were going on their way, they came to some water, and the Ethiopian said, See, here is water; why may I not have baptism?

8:37 []

8:38 And he gave orders for the carriage to be stopped, and the two of them went down into the water, and Philip gave him baptism.


هذه النسخة تحذف العدد بالكامل ما رايك ؟؟؟؟؟؟.

World English Bible


8:37 {TR adds “Philip said, ‘If you believe with all your heart, you may.’ He answered, ‘I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.’”}

تقول ان النص المستلم يضيف هذا العدد اليس هذا تحريف ؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟

The New American Standard Bible ( النسخة القياسية الامريكية الجديدة )

37[[a]And Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.” And he answered and said, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.”]

بين قوسين اى ليس فى الاصل



(New International Version)




36As they traveled along the road, they came to some water and the eunuch said, “Look, here is water. Why shouldn’t I be baptized?”[f] 38And he gave orders to stop the chariot. Then both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water and Philip baptized him.


Acts 8:36 Some late manuscripts baptized?” 37 Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.” The eunuch answered, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.”


و هذه النسخة لا تضع العدد فى النص بل فى الهامش فقط لان بعض المخطوطات المتاخرة تذكره هذا قولهم و ليس قولى .






J B PHILLIPS Translation of the NEW TESTAMENT




8:35-36 - Then Philip began, and using this scripture as a starting point, he told the eunuch the good news about Jesus. As they proceeded along the road they came to some water, and the eunuch said, "Look, here is some water; is there any reason why I should not be baptised now?"

8:38-40 - And he gave orders for the carriage to stop. Then both of them went down to the water and Philip baptised the eunuch. When they came up out of the water the Spirit of the Lord took Philip away suddenly and the eunuch saw no more of him, but proceeded on his journey with a heart full of joy. Philip found himself at Azotus and as he passed through the countryside he went on telling the good news in all the cities until he came to Caesarea.



ترجمة اخرى حديثة تحذف النص تماما و يختفى رقم 37 و يصبح العد 35 – 36 – 38 – 39 و الله المستعان وحده

English Standard version




36 And as they were going along the road they came to some water, and the eunuch said, “See, here is water! What prevents me from being baptized?” [5]


(Amplified Bible)




36 And as they were going along the road they came to some water, and the eunuch said, “See, here is water! What prevents me from being baptized?” [5] 38 And he commanded the chariot to stop, and they both went down into the water, Philip and the eunuch, and he baptized him.
رقم 37 يختفى و يذكر فى الهامش فقط

New Living Translation


36 As they rode along, they came to some water, and the eunuch said, “Look! There’s some water! Why can’t I be baptized?”[d] 38 He ordered the carriage to stop, and they went down into the water, and Philip baptized him.

Acts 8:36 Some manuscripts add verse 37, “You can,” Philip answered, “if you believe with all your heart.” And the eunuch replied, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.”
و انت وضعت نسخة اسبانى على سبيل التهكم ما رايك هذه نسخة اسبانية التى وضعتها


Reina-Valera 1995
37 Felipe dijo:

--Si crees de todo corazón, bien puedes.

Él respondiendo, dijo:

--Creo que Jesucristo es el Hijo de Dios.[t]

Hechos 8:37 El v. 37 no aparece en diversos ms.

تذكر فى الهامش ان العدد محذوف من عدة مخطوطات

الم اقل من البداية انقلب السحر على الساحر

(Young’s Literal Translation)

37[And Philip said, `If thou dost believe out of all the heart, it is lawful;’ and he answering said, `I believe Jesus Christ to be the Son of God;’]
العدد كله بين قوسين

(Darby Translation)



36And as they went along the way, they came upon a certain water, and the eunuch says, Behold water; what hinders my being baptised?

38And he commanded the chariot to stop. And they went down both to the water, both Philip and the eunuch, and he baptised him.


نسختك التى ذكرتها فى ردك الاصلى الذى تطلب نشره فى المنتديات تحذف عدد كامل
هل نلغى العدد 37 و نستريح
هل مازلت تطلب النشر
اين العدد 37 يا زميل فانس فى نسختك التى تستشهد بها
و اين حمرة الخجل ...........................................................




The Revised Standard Version




Revised Standard version
35: Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning with this scripture he told him the good news of Jesus.
36: And as they went along the road they came to some water, and the eunuch said, "See, here is water! What is to prevent my being baptized?"
38: And he commanded the chariot to stop, and they both went down into the water, Philip and the eunuch, and he baptized him.


نسختك التى ذكرتها فى ردك الاصلى الذى تطلب نشره فى المنتديات تحذف عدد كامل
هل نلغى العدد 37 و نستريح
هل مازلت تطلب النشر
اين العدد 37 يا زميل فانس فى نسختك التى تستشهد بها
و اين حمرة الخجل ...........................................................


و هذه الترجمة :

The Concordant Version
36 Now as they went along the road they came to some water, and the eunuch is averring, "Lo ! Water! What is preventing me from being baptized?"
37 (no verse 37)
38 And he orders the chariot to stand, and they both descended into the water, both Philip and the eunuch, and he baptizes him.

تذكر و لا فخر نو فرس اى لا عدد هنا اين ذهب اسال بروس او هوسكنز



و الان الفولجاتا التى ذكرتها انت هى ايضا تحذف العدد بالكامل :

Latin Vulgate


8:36 et dum irent per viam venerunt ad quandam aquam et ait eunuchus ecce aqua quid prohibet me baptizari

8:37 []

8:38 et iussit stare currum et descenderunt uterque in aquam Philippus et eunuchus et baptizavit eum

و لامانة هناك نسخ من الفولجاتا تحذف العدد و نسخ تضعه و باستعمال محرك بحث وجدت اول عشر نسخ فولجاتا على الشبكة تحذف العدد ماعدا نسختين فقط تضعه و انا اطلب منك تفسير ذلك كيف يختلف نص واحد صحيح باللاتينى و لكن لماذا نجد هذا الخلاف ؟؟؟؟؟؟؟.

انت الذى ذكرت كل هذه الترجمات و كلها لن تنفعك فى هذا العدد

عموما كل هذا مذكور فى الجزء الثانى من هذا البحث و ساضيف بعون الله الجملة التالية بعد ذكر العدد 8 : 37 اعمال الرسل ساضيف:

و جميع الترجمات الحديثة تحذف العدد بالكامل و تعد بدونه اى 36 – 38 مباشرة او تذكر فى الهامش انه غير موجود فى المخطوطات القديمة ..................

.هل عندك مانع ؟؟ هيا لنرى ردك و كما ترى وجود هذه العبارة او تعديلها او حتى حذفها لا يؤثر فى البحث و لكن لنرى ردك
ابن الله محذوفة من هذا العدد ايضا ...........................


و الله من وراء القصد و الحمد لله رب العالمين



03-19-2007, 02:34 PM
عرض جميع مشاركات هذا العضو إقتباس هذه الرسالة في الرد
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الردود في هذا الموضوع
بحث فى مصطلح ابن الله فى العهد الجديد - بواسطة eeww2000 - 03-19-2007, 02:34 PM

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