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/global.php 958 eval
/showthread.php 28 require_once
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/global.php 961 eval
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/showthread.php 673 build_forum_jump
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/showthread.php 673 build_forum_jump
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/showthread.php 673 build_forum_jump
Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code 2 errorHandler->error_callback
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/showthread.php 1690 eval
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/showthread.php 1690 eval
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/inc/class_error.php 153 errorHandler->error
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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معلومات كاملة عن تاريخ وفاء سلطان ..
نزار عثمان غير متصل
Gramsci
*****

المشاركات: 1,664
الانضمام: Dec 2004
مشاركة: #58
معلومات كاملة عن تاريخ وفاء سلطان ..
عزيزي عاشق

لا اعتقد اننا هنا نحتاج لتشريح السبب الذي يحصر نقد الدين بشروط وصفات سلوكية، وقد تفضل العزيز العلماني بالاشارة إلى هذه النقطة بوجه من التفصيل، متفضلا ان علته تتمثل دينيا باشتراط مزايا معينة في صاحب الفتوى او ناقل الحديث، أي بما هو داخل إطار المنظومة الدينية، من هنا وبتبسيط شديد، فمن يرغب بنقد المنظومة الدينية من داخلها، "قد" يصح (وقد هنا للتقليل) تعريضه للشرط السلوكي، وبالتالي الاخذ بما يقول او عدمه، لكن أن يأتي إنسان يتناول تلك المنظومة بالنقد من خارجها، فلا يصح البتة إجراء أحكام تلك المنظومة عليه، بل غاية الامر إعمال العقل والمنطق فيما يذهب، فهو بنقده للدين لا ينقد فقط الجانب العبادي فيه، بل قد يتناول بنقده أيضا الجانب السلوكي \ الاخلاقي، فكيف لك أن تطلب ممن يرفض هذا الدين بكليته ان يوفر في نفسه بعضا مما يرفضه ليصح برأيك ان يتناول بالنقد الجانب الاخر.. ولأزيد من التبسيط بمثال، قد يأتيك انسان يقول لك اثبت لي "نبوة محمد" .. هل يصح ان تستشهد بالقرآن لهذا الاثبات؟ قطعا لا، لانه اصلا لا يؤمن بنبوة محمد فكيف لك ان تثبتها بالقرآن الذي أتى به محمد؟.. ولمزيد من الشرح أيضا فيما خص وفاء سلطان – أو مطلق من يتناول الدين بالنقد بغض النظر عن أسلوبه مهما كان -، لا يصح بتاتا ان تسأله عن سيرته "الاخلاقية" في معرض الحوار الفكري، والا لبات الامر لا حواري ولا فكري.. بل أشبه بأحاديث العجائز .. وهنا لا بد من الاشارة، فليس كل من نقد الدين أخلاقيا، يكون "لا أخلاقي"، بل الحال متفاوت ومتشكك تبعا لذات المرء وقناعاته الخاصة..

مفهوم "الاخلاق" ان نظر اليه كمجموع الآداب العامة والاعراف والتقاليد، فهو غير مطرد ولا ثابت في كل الازمنة والامكنة، بل هو متحول ومتحرك تبعا لصيرورات عدة، في حين ان الأسس التي يبنى عليها الحوار بين فكرين متناقضين او متخالفين ثابتة ((نسبيا))، وتتشكل أوليا بمقارعة الفكرة بالفكرة والحجة بالحجة..

آتي الى موضوع وفاء سلطان هنا، انطلاقا مما قد تسوقه من أنه لا فكر بنقدها للاسلام – ومع موافقتي المبدأية على هذا – اسأل: لم تأخذ كل هذا الجهد والاهتمام منكم ان كانت كذلك؟ ثم الا تخالفون بأنفسكم وصايا دينكم عندما يتم التعريض بهذه الانسانة بهذه الطريقة؟ قليل من المنطق لا يضر

اما حديثك عن نقد الدين لمصلحة شخصية.. يا أخي الانسان حر، مجددا ليس لك ولا لي ان نحاكم النوايا، الحال بالمقال وفقط .. وهذا من الابجديات يعني، لا أظن اننا نحتاج لإثبات ما هو بديهي..

***

بالنسبة للعزيز أحمد، اتمنى عليه قليلا من الهدوء، فكلما كان الحوار هادئا كلما وصلنا الى نقاط تقارب أكثر


***

مع اخلص التمنيات
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(تم إجراء آخر تعديل على هذه المشاركة: 03-17-2008, 03:51 PM بواسطة نزار عثمان.)
03-17-2008, 03:48 PM
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الردود في هذا الموضوع
معلومات كاملة عن تاريخ وفاء سلطان .. - بواسطة نزار عثمان - 03-17-2008, 03:48 PM

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