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/global.php 958 eval
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $board_messages - Line: 28 - File: global.php(961) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined property: MyLanguage::$bottomlinks_returncontent - Line: 6 - File: global.php(1070) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/showthread.php 673 build_forum_jump
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/showthread.php 673 build_forum_jump
Warning [2] Undefined property: MyLanguage::$forumjump_select - Line: 5 - File: inc/functions.php(3442) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/showthread.php 673 build_forum_jump
Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/showthread.php 1690 eval
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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من يسيء إلى الإسلام؟ ومن هو المجرم الحقيقي؟
شهاب الدمشقي غير متصل
مندس ..
*****

المشاركات: 1,114
الانضمام: Jun 2002
مشاركة: #113
RE: ن يسيء إلى الإسلام؟ ومن هو المجرم الحقيقي؟
تحياتي عزيزي اسامة ..

ارجو ان يتسع صدرك لما سأقوله (واختلاف الرأي لا يفسد للود قضية) :

اقتباس:لا يا عم أنت مخطئ هنا، لأنني مثلا أعاني من حمى البحث في هذا المجال، فكلما سمعت باسم جديد هرولت نحوه علي أقرأ جديدا، لأصاب بخيبة ما بعدها خيبة. للأسف الشديد جميعهم نسخة ملطفة عن الزرقاوي

ارجو أن تعذرني عزيزي اسامة ولكن الخيبة الحقيقة كانت من نصيبي هذه المرة بعد أن قرأت كلامك الأخير والذي لا يدل على (حمى البحث في هذا المجال !!) على حد تعبيرك !! .. أو على الأقل لا يدل على قراءة معمقة موضوعية بعيدة عن التحيزات الفكرية والأحكام المسبقة والنتائج المقررة سلفاً .. ومن ذاك تلك الصور الاختزالة النمطية للآخر الإسلامي (الذي لا أمل منه ! والذي هو صورة معدلة عن الزرقاوي !!) والذي بدى في الأمثلة التالية:

اقتباس:فنصر أبو زيد ليس صاحب خطاب ديني و إنما صاحب نقد.

لا اتعامل مع الأفكار على اساس (عمامة الكاتب !) وإنما انطلاقا من تأثير هذه الافكار على الرؤية الدينية المطلقة .. ومن هذه الزاوية اقييم الأثر الإصلاحي لكتابات ابو زيد ..

اقتباس:أما محمد شحرور الذي أحب مايكتبه كثيرا فهو باحث في اللسان و ليس في الفقه الإجتماعي

لا اعتقد أن توصيفك دقيق، فكتابه (الكتب والقرآن) وعلى الرغم من أنه قديم قراءة لغوية للقرآن إلا أنه يؤصل لآلية في فهم النص القرأني وبالتالي استنباط الحكم الشرعي منه (ولا تنس أن علم أصول الفقه هو في جانب كبير جدا منه قواعد لغوية ولسانية) .. ولعل التطبيق الحقيقي لافكار محمد شحرور كانت في كتابه " نحو اصول جديدة للفقه الإسلامي" وهو كتاب يدخل في صميم (الفقه الاجتماعي) الذي تنفيه عنه ! ..

اقتباس:إضافة إلى أنه يرفض الحديث الشريف صراحة، و هذا يجعل تأثيره على الخطاب الديني مثار جدل.

اتفق معك تماما في هذه النقطة، ولذلك لم أحصر الدائرة الإصلاحية في هذه الاسماء الجدلية، وإنما وستعها لتشمل الفكر الإصلاحي الإصولي (نسبة إلى علم اصول الفقه) وهي الدائرة التي تحظ بالقبول الشعبي.

اقتباس:أما السيد حسن الترابي فيجب ألا ننسى أنه صاحب التطبيق الذي تجلد على أساسه النساء لمجرد لبس السروال.

لعلك لا تعرف يا عزيزي موقع حسن الترابي من التركيبة السياسية السودانية اليوم، وأنه في موقع المعارضة لا في موقع القرار السياسي ! وأنه قد اعترض على القرار الصادر بحق الصحفية السوداينة !!!!! .. ولعلك لم تطلع على اجتهادته الأخيرة والتي اتهم بسببها بالكفر من قبل مؤسسات قريبة من السلطة (من المفيد الاطلاع على قراءة اسلامية اصولية لاجتهادات حسن الترابي من خلال البيان الشهير الذي نشره أحد تلاميذه وهو محمد مختار الشنقيطي) ..

اقتباس:أذكرك بأن المصلح الحقيقي محمود طه قضى على حبل المشنقة في عام 1985 بتحريض مباشر منه.

واذكرك بأن حكم الاعدام الذي تتحدث عنه صدر بقرار من جعفر نميري (السياسي المتلقب الذي انقلب من الشيوعية إلى الاسلمة) وطبعا هذا كله قبل ثورة الإنقاذ وتصاعد الدور السياسي للترابي ..

اقتباس:أما سليم العوا فله موقع يزخر "بالإصلاحية ضمن الدائرة الأصولية".

لم افهم معنى هذه العبارة !! .. ما العيب في أفكار سليم العوا على وجه الدقة ؟ ..

ما الخطأ في افكار عبد الكريم زيدان الذي طرح اجتهاد اسلامي لمنصب رئيس الدولة بما يجيز للمسيحي أن يحكم الدولة الإسلامية ؟ ..

ما الخطأ في افكار طه جابر علون الذي أعاد تأويل حكم الردة من خلال قراءة اسلامية ناضجة ؟ ..

ما الخطأ في افكار فهمي الهويدي الذي يؤكد على المواطنة الكاملة للمسيحي ضمن الدولة الإسلامية ويرد بجرأة وقوة تراكمات التراث الاسلامي المخالف ذلك ؟ ..

ما الخطأ في جراءة وشجاعة فيصل المولوي في تفسير نصوص التعامل مع الآخر المسيحي ؟ ..

اقتباس:أما راشد الغنوشي فيكفي أن تقرأ ما يكتبه على صفحات الجزيرة لتفهم أن وصفه بالإصلاحي يشكل إهانة للمصطلح

ماذا يكتب هذا الرجل (صاحب كتاب الحريات العامة في الدولة الإسلامية) على وجه الدقة مما يجعل وصفه بالإصلاحي إهانة للمصطلح ؟ .. صدقني تساؤل حواري لا استنكاري .. (مع تحفظي بالتأكيد على الكثير من افكاره ومواقفه السياسية، ولكن التحفظ لا يعني ابخاس قدر الرجل بالمطلق ونفي أي ايجابية عنه كما في عبارتك السابقة ) ..

اقتباس:أما حاكم المطيري فهو أحد كبار المحرضين على نصر أبو زيد،

حبذا لو تبين لنا هذا الموقف (ليس من قبيل الانكار صدقني ولكن من قبيل أخذ العلم لا غير) ..

اقتباس:و ديمقراطيته على نمط الديمقراطية الصهيونية (لليهود فقط. أما العرب فلهم القمع و مصادرة الأراضي و الاجتثاث). أما راشد الغنوشي فيكفي أن تقرأ ما يكتبه على صفحات الجزيرة لتفهم أن وصفه بالإصلاحي يشكل إهانة للمصطلح.

من قرأ كتابي المطيري "الحرية أو الطوفان" وكتابه الحديث "تحرير الإنسان وتجريد الطغيان" (وهي بالمناسبة كتب ممنوعة في السعودية والكويت !) لن يجازف بمثل هذا الاستنتاج العجيب ! (مع كامل تقديري واحترامي لك ) .. وتقيمك هذا يجعلني افترض أمرين: إما انك لم تقرأ الكتاب من الأساس ! أو أنك قرأته من افتراضات مسبقة ونتائج مقررة سلفا ! ..

من المؤكد أن حاكم المطيري لم يتحول إلى مونتيسيكو اسلامي أو جان جاك روسو سلفي !! .. لا بالطبع .. ولكن من الانصاف أن نعترف بالقيم الايجابية والاصلاحية بل حتى الثورية التي وردت في كلامه (وهي مواضيع لم نكن نتوقع ان نسمعها من رموز سلفية كما قال فهمي الهويدي بحق ) .. أما إذا كنا سنصر على التعامل مع الخطاب الإسلامي الإصلاحي من منطلق ( ديمقراطيته على نمط الديمقراطية الصهيونية (لليهود فقط. أما العرب فلهم القمع و مصادرة الأراضي و الاجتثاث) فما أيسر أن نكتشف نماذج كثيرة مشابهة تماما في فهم الديمقراطية ضمن الخطاب العلماني العربي (الحرية لنا فقط ولا للاسلامي !) ..

بالتأكيد كلامي السابق لا يعني باي حال موافقتي الكاملة على مجمل ما طرح ويطرح في الأمثلة أعلاه من طروحات وافكار اصلاحية اسلامية، بل لي تحفظات فكرية عليها (تماما كما أن لي تحفظات فكرية على كتثير من افرازات الخطاب العلماني والليبرالي) .. ولكن ما قلته واقوله يدخل في باب بحثي عن العنب لا معاركة الناطور ! ..
خالص التحية ..
(تم إجراء آخر تعديل على هذه المشاركة: 03-07-2010, 06:31 PM بواسطة شهاب الدمشقي.)
03-07-2010, 06:02 PM
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الردود في هذا الموضوع
RE: ن يسيء إلى الإسلام؟ ومن هو المجرم الحقيقي؟ - بواسطة شهاب الدمشقي - 03-07-2010, 06:02 PM

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