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/global.php 958 eval
/showthread.php 28 require_once
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/global.php 961 eval
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/showthread.php 673 build_forum_jump
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/showthread.php 673 build_forum_jump
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/showthread.php 673 build_forum_jump
Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1686) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code 2 errorHandler->error_callback
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/showthread.php 1690 eval
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/showthread.php 1690 eval
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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/inc/class_error.php 153 errorHandler->error
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $posttime - Line: 2 - File: showthread.php(1690) : eval()'d code PHP 8.1.2-1ubuntu2.19 (Linux)
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حوار حول شخصية إبليس في الكتاب المقدس
zaidgalal غير متصل
عضو رائد
*****

المشاركات: 4,570
الانضمام: Jan 2005
مشاركة: #2
حوار حول شخصية إبليس في الكتاب المقدس
الشيخ: ها نحن قد فرغنا من تناول الشاي وأسمع القس يطرق الباب وأعتقد أن ابني يفتح له. سأستقبله بنفسي.
الشيخ: مرحبًا بك صديقي القس دانيال. تفضل. ها هو تلميذ من تلامذتي يريد مناقشة موضوع يؤرقه ويقض مضجعه وأبكاه كثيرًا.
القس: (يتبادل التحية مع زيد ثم يجلسا) ما هو الموضوع يا بني؟!
زيد: حكيت للشيخ أن إبليس وقف بين يدي الرب وعرض عليه الموافقة على قيام إبليس بغواية آخاب وأنبيائه. وهذه كارثة يا سيدي!
القس: هذا يا بني رمز. نحن نفسرها بأنها ترمز إلى أفكار الناس الشريرة. ولا نقول أنها واقع حدث بالفعل.
زيد: سيدي. البعض يحاول إيجاد مخرج لفقرات كهذه في الكتاب المقدس. أعتقد أن الأمر واضح من الفقرات فالنبي الذي يروي يقول أنه رأى وسمع. إنما يفسرها البعض بالرمز لأن أستاذ تفسير الكتاب المقدس "ألبير بارنرس" في كتابه "مذكرات في الكتاب المقدس" يقول:
The difficulties which attach to this passage are considerable. On the one hand, it is hard to suppose one of the holy Angels a “lying spirit;” on the other, hard to find Satan, or an evil spirit, included among “the host of heaven” 1Ki_22:19 and acting as the minister of God.
إن المشاكل المتعلقة بهذا النص لها اعتبارها. فمن الصعب أن نعتقد أن روحَ قدس (ملاك كريم) ينقلب إلى "روح كذب"، ومن الصعب أن نجد إبليس أو أي روح شيطانية في الحضرة الإلهية ويتصرف كمندوب عن الرب.
القس: صدقت يا بني. ولكن هذا هو التفسير المعتمد.
زيد: سيدي القس لقد قرأت في نفس الكتاب أن إبليس تمكن من مخادعة الرب.
الشيخ: كفى يا بني هذيانًا. كفى! لابد أن تصحح عقيدتك وتراجع إيمانك كما نصحك بعض الإخوة. ولابد أن تعلن توبتك على الملأ! أريد أن أرى زيد الذي أعرفه جيدًا.
زيد: سيدي لقد علمتني أنه من الخطأ للمسلم أن يأمر أخاه بإعلان التوبة سرًا أو جهرًا بين الناس. فالتوبة مسألة بين العبد وربه. وأنت لا تملك صك غفران لتأمرني بإعلان التوبة. عفوًا سيدي!
الشيخ: صدقت يا بني ولكنك تقول كلامًا ثقيلًا على النفس.
القس: (يضحك) سيد زيد! ليس كل كتاب تقرأه تصدقه أو تصدق كل ما جاء به!
زيد: نعم. ولكن الكتاب يستشهد بالكتاب المقدس.
القس: نعم؟! هلا أطلعتني على الموضع؟!
زيد: نعم يا سيدي. تعالَ نقرأ:
وَكَانَ ذَاتَ يَوْمٍ أَنَّهُ جَاءَ بَنُو اللهِ لِيَمْثُلُوا أَمَامَ الرَّبِّ وَجَاءَ الشَّيْطَانُ أَيْضاً فِي وَسَطِهِمْ لِيَمْثُلَ أَمَامَ الرَّبِّ. فَقَالَ الرَّبُّ لِلشَّيْطَانِ: [مِنْ أَيْنَ جِئْتَ؟] فَأَجَابَ الشَّيْطَانُ: [مِنَ الْجَوَلاَنِ فِي الأَرْضِ وَمِنَ التَّمَشِّي فِيهَا]. فَقَالَ الرَّبُّ لِلشَّيْطَانِ: [هَلْ جَعَلْتَ قَلْبَكَ عَلَى عَبْدِي أَيُّوبَ لأَنَّهُ لَيْسَ مِثْلُهُ فِي الأَرْضِ! رَجُلٌ كَامِلٌ وَمُسْتَقِيمٌ يَتَّقِي اللهَ وَيَحِيدُ عَنِ الشَّرِّ. وَإِلَى الآنَ هُوَ مُتَمَسِّكٌ بِكَمَالِهِ وَقَدْ هَيَّجْتَنِي عَلَيْهِ لأَبْتَلِعَهُ بِلاَ سَبَبٍ]. فَأَجَابَ الشَّيْطَانُ: [جِلْدٌ بِجِلْدٍ وَكُلُّ مَا لِلإِنْسَانِ يُعْطِيهِ لأَجْلِ نَفْسِهِ. وَلَكِنِ ابْسِطِ الآنَ يَدَكَ وَمَسَّ عَظْمَهُ وَلَحْمَهُ فَإِنَّهُ فِي وَجْهِكَ يُجَدِّفُ عَلَيْكَ]. فَقَالَ الرَّبُّ لِلشَّيْطَانِ: [هَا هُوَ فِي يَدِكَ وَلَكِنِ احْفَظْ نَفْسَهُ]. فَخَرَجَ الشَّيْطَانُ مِنْ حَضْرَةِ الرَّبِّ وَضَرَبَ أَيُّوبَ بِقُرْحٍ رَدِيءٍ مِنْ بَاطِنِ قَدَمِهِ إِلَى هَامَتِهِ. (أيوب 2: 1 – 7)

تقول نسخة الملك جيمس الحديثة:
Have you set your heart on My servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one who fears God and turns away from evil? And still he is keeping hold of his integrity, although you moved Me against him to destroy him without cause.
القس: المعنى هنا أن إبليس طلب من الرب. مجرد طلب فقط يا بني. لذلك أرى هنا أن كلمة "هيجتني" غير مناسبة. وكذلك كلمة "أبتلعه". لأن الرب ليس تنينًا أو مخلوقًا مخيفًا. أعتقد هنا خطأ في الترجمة.
زيد: إذن فلننظر في الأصل يا سيدي. تعالَ نقرأ من تفسير الأستاذ البروفيسور"ألبير" المذكور آنفًا:
1. Although thou movedst me -The word rendered “movedst” סוּת su^th means to incite, to impel, to urge, to irritate against anyone.
أثرتني، جعلتني أثور وأهيج ضده.
2. To destroy him - The word used here (from בלע bela‛) means properly to swallow, to devour, with the idea of eagerness or greediness.
يبتلع ويأكل بنهم وجشع.
القس: نعم. أعتقد أن هناك تفسيرًا رمزيًا. لهذا سأرجع لمراجعي وأخبرك به.
زيد: نعم سيدي! وأريد أن أفهم كيف يطلب الرب من إبليس أن يجعل قلبه مع النبي أيوب؟! العجيب أن أستاذ التفسير "ألبير" ذكر أنه من الصعب تصور وجود روح شريرة في حضرة الرب، ولكنه أعرض عن تفسير هذه الواقعة بالمرة وإلا أدخل نفسه في مشاكل لا طاقة له بها. ولكن قاموس Concise Bible Dictionary يعترف بهذا ويقول:
God uses him in the discipline of His saints, as in the case of Job, but allows the evil one to go only as far as He pleases.
القس: لا تنس يا بني أن لإبليس قوة كبيرة في هذا العالم. ألا تعلم أنه تمكن من إغواء الكثيرين. ألا ترَ من حولك الحروب والجرائم في كل مكان؟!
زيد: ما ذكرناه يا سيدي يتعارض مع فقرة قالها القديس بولس.
القس: وما هي يا بني؟
زيد: تعالَ نقرأ معًا:

تابع
01-28-2005, 08:04 PM
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الردود في هذا الموضوع
حوار حول شخصية إبليس في الكتاب المقدس - بواسطة zaidgalal - 01-28-2005, 08:04 PM
حوار حول شخصية إبليس في الكتاب المقدس - بواسطة ضيف - 02-06-2005, 02:18 PM,

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